Paul Murphy: Challenges use of Supervised Access Ireland by Tusla

The question effectively is whether any funding is still being allocated, whether Tusla has stopped using the services of supervised access Ireland, there have been and I spoke about it in the Dáil last week I think in the statements on child protection a number of serious issues with supervised access Ireland from the treatment of the workers to overcharging of parents who were using the services and it seemed that Tusla, that supervised access Ireland certainly in 2024 had received a fair bit of money that seemed a lot in the period that they apparently had been used, so just if we get, thanks. Thanks Deputy, so following issues with this service provider the Tusla director of services issued a direction to all regional chief officers to stop using the services of this company on the 15th of January of this year, and now my department was informed by Tusla on the 10th of September that one that one of the Tusla local area inadvertently re-engaged this particular service. The service was wrongly engaged for supervised access where another funded agency was not in the position to provide the service required. So the company was engaged by Tusla on three dates in September and one in October, and Tusla has advised that this arrangement ceased on the 8th of October of this year, two children in a sibling group availed of this service for supervised access for supervised access in one local area, so it was one family and this company supervised four visits. That is not acceptable, I just want to make it clear that should not have happened and we have raised that issue with Tusla directly. In terms of spend in 2024 for this company, $101,986 in 2024. The vast majority of that was payment for services in 2023. And Tusla has provided assurance to my department that this company is not being used by Tusla currently and will be not used again in the future, and that all Tusla areas are aware of this particular direction. direction. Now, because of the engagement on the 10th of September this year, and because of that information about the inadvertent use, my department are going back to Tusla again to absolutely confirm that in all areas across the country, this particular service provider isn't being used. Mr. Minister, there's two follow-ups. One, to ask whether, do you know whether it's the case that the State in any other form continues to have contracts with this company? I don't have it in front of me, but as far as I was aware, even when Tusla had stopped using, and then clearly there was one unit that still was, that there was another arm of the State that was continuing to use their services. And secondly, is the broader issue. Do you accept that there's a need for a public supervised access service, as is the case in other European countries? When I came across this issue, to be honest, I was shocked that the State through the courts mandates that the only way you're going to be able to see your kids is by having supervised access. But then the State does not provide any mechanism for that to happen. You have to go to these private companies who really have you over a barrel, are able to charge extortionate rates, have, in this particular case of this particular company, gross overcharging taking place, mistreatment of workers and so on. But do you accept the need for a public supervised access service? Deputy, I always have a preference for the public over the private, and particularly in the area of child law, child protection. And it is a real concern to me that because of the, I suppose, deficits in recruitment in the past that Tusla has had, it is too reliant on private sector providers, whether it's for supervised access, whether it's for access to residential services, whether it's for fostering services. That's why I've put a lot of investment into Tusla and, you know, Tusla's investment is now over a billion euro every year. And I've prioritised investment so it can grow the State apparatus. We've put more money into foster care allowance so we can keep more foster carers in the public sector. So that's my position, and my position would always be to favour the public over the private, including in the area of supervised access. I don't have, I can't give you an absolute answer on terms of other State bodies using these services. I do know we would have certainly raised our concerns with the HSC, sorry, Tusla would have raised its concerns with the HSC about this particular organisation when it ceased, when it made that direction in February of this year. Thank you, Secretary. Thank you.