Richard Boyd Barrett Questions Reliance on HAP and RAS
Richard Boyd Barrett questioned reliance on HAP and RAS in a housing scenarios document, arguing these payments channel public money to private landlords rather than increasing council-owned social housing. He asked whether the State should phase out HAP and RAS over time, noting a reported annual cost of nearly a billion a year and arguing that council-owned stock is better value for the State.
Key question raised
Richard Boyd Barrett asked officials to clarify scenarios in the document that set different proportions for social housing delivered via council housing versus HAP and RAS. He challenged the implication that HAP and RAS would necessarily remain the default approach rather than the State providing more permanent social housing stock.
Fiscal cost highlighted
The Deputy emphasised the fiscal impact, citing "nearly a billion a year" leaving the State and questioning whether public money that does not create State-owned assets represents good value. He argued that the State’s own social housing stock would be better value in the long term.
Scenarios analysed in the report
Officials said the report models three scenarios that alter the balance between ramping up supports and ramping them down to show the fiscal costs over time. The modelling focuses on how costs change as demand fluctuates and does not make or recommend long-term policy changes.
Scope and limitations of the response
The official response stressed that the analysis is a fiscal exercise - "changing the dial" - and does not enter into the policy implications of phasing out HAP and RAS. The report was described as focused on policy-change scenarios rather than prescribing a specific policy path.
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Have you had one pint? Yeah. We've only got one and a half minutes. By the way, I agree with him, because we don't know how they built the pyramids. We had the skills to build the pyramids, we don't know how they did. You lose these skills unless somebody makes sure they stay. But I just want to, in your document, you have different scenarios for the proportion of social housing that will be delivered via the actual provision of council housing and the stuff that will be HAP and RAS. And you're talking about 25% or 30% or lower percentages. Could you just clarify, sort of, because you're saying it's going to stay with us, HAP and RAS, which is money going to private landlords rather than us directly providing it. On the basis in the longer term, there will be less need. Therefore, I'm assuming the argument you're making is we don't need as much permanent social housing stock. Now, as against that, there's a huge cost, surely, of nearly a billion a year going out, which is going out and the state isn't getting anything out of it. And arguably, it's contributing negatively to the sort of, the wider problems in the property sector. So, I mean, are you sure we should not be looking to, I know you can't get rid of it tomorrow, but should we not be looking, this is my question, to phase it out, to phase it out, HAP and RAS, because the stock, our own stock, is better value from the point of view of the state. Okay. I can, I'll take that. Thanks, Deputy. So, the three scenarios that we look at in the housing, it's very much changing the dial between where we are now, what would it mean if we ramped up those supports, and what would it mean if we ramped down from a fiscal perspective. So, it doesn't get into what are the long-term policy implications of doing those things. It is simply a changing of the dial to see what the fiscal costs would be over the period of time and how they would change as demand fluctuates and as it changes. So, it doesn't get into the realm of policy change. Again, the whole pretext of the report is that it's on a policy change basis. Thank you.
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