Mattie McGrath warns of 'cliff edge' as March 1 deadline looms

Minister, the lack of clarity of any concrete commitment from your government to extend the financial supports for businesses, you have just been discussing it here, to households and mitigate the ongoing high cost of living crisis means that people are now facing a cliff edge, which your Taoiseach said they would not face, and they are. The government has completely failed to provide any clarity on whether the reduced fat rate for electricity, gas and petrol and diesel will continue beyond the first of March. People need certainty, Minister, and that is what we need. The lack of clarity from your government with respect to this area is a cause of significant stress and anxiety for tens of thousands of people. Furthermore, the hospitality sector, which implies 260,000 people, and this is kicking off now with the first of March, all the bookings going on at the moment, they are being left in limbo. Once again, as your government has made no decision of whether the fat rate for the hospitality sector will continue at a temporary lower rate beyond the first of March, they need certainty, they need to fill rooms and take bookings and apply people. Minister, leaving families like this, and mortars, rural residents and indeed the entire hospitality sector in a state of limbo, in the middle of a catastrophic cost of living crisis, is outrageous and undermines the wishy-washy nature of your government. You are here defending Minister, dealing with everything about what you should be dealing with, and letting the big guys like the Queen and the Gresham House and all take over our country. Look after the Dean of Oga and the Dean of Oga, please. The lack of clarity, Minister, of this policy is just incredible. It is incredible. It is clear that your government lacks any leadership here. Are you fighting with each other? I heard you on the radio saying that you thought that the exercise usage would have to go up again on fuel, because fuel has come down. Do you really want to cripple the motorists, the hauliers and everybody else? Inflation and the cost of living pressures affecting families are extremely harsh at the moment, and the families and small businesses deserve to know what is happening above anything else. They can deal with it as best they can, but they deserve certainty. The government's lack of action, as I said, to provide clarity here, is just simply impaling. I know the second and back picture of what we are saying here, but the tail is wagging the dog, because you did state that you want to exercise the duty to go up again. Carbon tax, everything else. You said earlier that you want to go down for the mountains and plant trees and good land. I said to you, go back into the hills and stay there with the wolves and everybody else, if you are not going to look after the people, you are reluctant to the people. You can plant whatever kind of trees you want to plant in those wetlands, and the wolves will keep you warm at night. But they won't heat the fires, they won't heat their homes, they won't provide food on the table, and they won't support the 260,000 jobs that are depending on the hospitality sector. Are you trying to wipe out that industry altogether? Minister, please, we need decisive action. You said to Deputy Tobin that they won't be cliff-edge, you will deal with it. When? It is only four and a half weeks away to the 1st of March, and then what are we going to do? We are going to wait until there will be another crisis. The time is up. Minister, please. Last summer, when the price hikes really hit, the end of July, early August, my fear was that the impact would be far worse than COVID. The impact of that scale of price increase, which no one could predict whether it would continue or otherwise, would be devastating for Irish business. And for a lot of businesses, it has, even though the price has come down dramatically since that high spike, it has been very challenging. That's why we introduced TBAS. One of the other, I did mention it in response to Deputy Tobin, one of the other measures which was introduced as part of this whole range of different solutions to the problem. It has been surprising, and we have to look at the real reasons why, where the volume or the uptake has been much lower than expected. And we look at that and review it as part of the review of the whole range of different measures. One of the, if you look where we are now, and I said, depends what happens in the war, because no one knows for certain what's happening with energy prices. Five, six weeks ago, I think I publicly said my expectation was for gas prices to remain at their very high level for the next two years, because that was the best advice in the National Energy Agency, European Commission, any analysis that I was able to avail of. It's changed in the last five to six weeks for a variety of reasons. We haven't used as much gas in Europe. The stores in Europe are nearly 80% full, whereas this time last year, they would have been down about 30%. So we go into this refilling season in spring and summer. It's also been a slightly warmer winter than average, a variety of different reasons. For that and other reasons, the price of gas has come down very significantly from what it was five or six weeks ago. We won't see that kicking into home bills for some time. It will depend, because each supply company has different circumstances in terms of how far forward they're hedged. Some might even be hedged a year in advance. They might have bought gas at very expensive prices last summer and autumn, and would have a very high price profile because of that into this year, to the end of this year. Others may not have hedged their position and may be able to bring their prices down quicker. It's about 13 different supply companies to all have different circumstances, but yes, we want to bring that down. On oil and gas, on oil and petrol and diesel, it's gone from, you'll recall, the highest price was at about €2.15 a litre, €2.15 a litre. I don't know. Yeah, but that was the price for people paying at the forecourt, which is what matters to people. That's come down to some, depending on gas and petrol, but something around €150. So it has changed. It's complicated, because the currency exchange rate euro to the dollar affects the price, as well as the price of oil. The price of oil seems relatively steady, about $80 a barrel in the international markets. And in those circumstances, we do have to look at restoring our tax base. Because the benefit of excise and VAT is that it helps provide us a stable income that allows us to pay for the pay increases in the public service which we need to deliver on. Thank you, Minister. Allows us to provide for the social welfare increases and to go further in next October's budget. I could go and list as long in arms of what we do need to spend on, and there is a responsibility to retain the income stream to pay for those vital services for our people. We all know what you have spent on, but driving people into pain isn't the answer. And you also said, Minister, that you won't acknowledge that it is not complicated to know the amount of taxes you take out of each litre of petrol and diesel and fuel. And that is as simple as that. Can you confirm that it is all here today, Minister? What is the 9% VAT rate for the hospitality sector and the temporary business energy support scheme, which you mentioned, TBES, and the excise caught in petrol and diesel will be extended beyond the end of February? Simple question. People need certainty. The 260,000 people in the hospitality sector need certainty as well, and they are implied. You said the slower take-up is confined to electricity. I have people who are using Isle, and they couldn't get the gas scheme. They couldn't get the TBES scheme. I have people who are using other forms of gas rather than town gas. They couldn't get the TBES scheme. So you are making it tricky. You are making it sound as if people didn't need it or didn't want it. So this is the games you are playing with people's lives, Minister. The public deserves a government that will provide certainty. And the way things currently look, it appears that we are not going to get certainty. It is going to be day after day and issue after issue. We need clarity and certainty that people will be able to heat their homes, go to work, industry we can travel, and farmers can operate, and everybody else that depends on these measures. They will continue, and they will have certainty. We are not going to be able to decide that in the Leader's question on Thursday, the 26th of January. We have to do that collectively as a government and take into account a whole variety of circumstances, recognising that while prices have come down very significantly, they are still very high by historic comparison. And in our economy, we have to make sure that the overall economic approach is one that protects the most vulnerable, that retains employment, and helps businesses. Because there are still businesses in particular difficulties. What we do is, we try and make sure we have an economy that serves our people. That is the purpose of our economic policy. And the income streams that you get from a stable tax base are part of a social democratic approach to government. And it is so easy to promise you won't have to pay for anything. We will provide for everything. You have a responsibility to balance your income and your expenditure. The State needs to expand. We need more services. We need more houses. We need more hospitals. We need to pay for that. And that we do by creating a sound economy. Thank you very much. That concludes the interview.