Mattie McGrath criticises lockdowns, urges EU forbearance

I will ask the Minister of Finance to provide a quantifiable monetary value of the costs, the huge economic costs and social costs that this pandemic and the government's attitude and lockdown is causing on the people of Ireland. It is causing so much of the harm that the deputies are referring to, not the government. And we're acutely aware that the pandemic and the necessary public health measures introduced to control the spread of the virus have had a huge impact on our economy and our society. Recognising this, the government has acted decisively and on an unprecedented scale. Almost 38 billion euro in fiscal support has been provided to household businesses and our health service. This represents about a fifth of national income. Those who've lost their jobs as a result of this pandemic have been supported through the pandemic unemployment payment with a cost of over 6.5 billion euro to date. We've put in place a comprehensive suite of policies to assist businesses. The main support scheme, the Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme and its predecessor, the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme, have cost the Exchequer over 5 billion euro to date. The government has also introduced the Covid restrictions support scheme to provide direct financial support to closed businesses. Businesses that are not eligible to avail of this scheme are further supported by the Small Business Assistance Scheme. This is in addition to a wide range of supports provided through Enterprise Ireland, the IDA and by local enterprise offices. In relation to the economic cost, the way in which we measure our domestic economy, modified domestic demand, that declined by 5.4% last year, with domestic facing sectors bearing the brunt of the impact. And then, of course, for employment, which is at the heart of our society and our economy, that, of course, also soared last year with an unemployment rate of about 19% recorded in 2020. And we currently have at the moment, Deputy, just over 450,000 people in receipt of the pandemic unemployment payment. I agree that those assistance packages were put in place and I welcome them. What I do disagree with you, that is the pandemic. It's your reaction to the pandemic and the way your government have dealt with it. I want you to outline the destructive impacts, the unprecedented levels of unemployment. You have mentioned that. The collapse of the small business sector. And, Minister, you have to be real here. Where are we going to go? The longest lockdown goes on. We're the longest in Europe. The WHO said lockdowns don't work. So, we know that. But you continue, like, blindfoldedly with them. So, I want to know, Minister, up until recently you were saying that there wouldn't be extra taxes. But recently you have said that there would be extra taxes, you know, after this pandemic. And they have business people and taxpayers, the working people, and they're going to have to pay all this back. I think that you're going to have to get help from Europe and get forbearance and, indeed, a rollover. And, you know, a deferral of the debt. Because the debt is going to be massive. And I believe that there are many other ways of tackling it without simply lock down everything and keep it locked down. That has failed. And other countries have proven that they could do it other ways. But we want to just be the good buyers in Europe. We need forbearance from Europe on this. What other countries have proved, the deputy? What other countries have proved that the use of public health measures and the restrictions on mobility and businesses opening, what other countries have proved that they have alternative ways of tackling this disease, deputy? Name them. And the reason for, I heard the deputy say a moment ago that the WHO is saying that lockdowns don't work. I'd love to hear the deputy's argument for that in a moment, given that it's also the World Health Organization that are advising about the need for social distancing, are advising us of the really big effects and the dangerous effects of this disease that we know so well. But, deputy, how we get out of this and how we deal with this cost is to be able to safely reopen our economy, to be able to safely reopen our society. And if we weren't butting these supports in place, you'd be castigating me for doing it. We are butting them in the place. They will have consequences for the future. But we can deal with most of those consequences through our economy growing again. Michael, Dr McGrath? I acknowledge the supports. I said that. I'm just saying the strategy. You blame the pandemic. It is the pandemic, yes, but it's your government's reaction to it and prolonged lockdown. Last night, you had no roadmap either. The whole swathes of our community, our society, as I was never even mentioned in the press conference or since, the whole arts industry and what's involved there. And the impact, both economically and socially, on our people is devastating and will be unquantifiable for decades to come. That's why I'm saying to you, there are other models where they dealt with it and they will have to live with COVID and open up and let our people work. Let them have hope of work. They're sold now for over 12 months, struggling to get back. No mercy from the bank. So I'm asking you to bring this issue to Europe, ask them for forebounds for Ireland. We work in Ireland, you have a role, European, I know, over all different countries. But look, we need to be able to offer hope to our people, to allow them back to work and indeed to allow them to recover some semblance of the business that they have. Or is there another agenda behind this that you want to break them all, leave them all, be impoverished and be broke forever? Because other countries have exited lockdown and allowed people back to work. Our construction industry is closed. Everything is just closed. Other countries have exited lockdown after being in lockdown for periods as well. They're the facts. I asked the deputy, could he give me an example of a country that has not used lockdown measures to suppress the disease, didn't hear us in the statement that he made back to me. I don't know what the deputy is suggesting regarding what agenda he feels I may have. The only agenda that I have is to play what part I can in reducing the loss of life in our country and saving jobs where we can and getting ready to create jobs again in the future when we are able to reopen our economy safely. There is a plan. It was outlined by the Taoiseach yesterday evening. We talked about what we are looking to do week by week and what we're looking to then do last cancola as we move into May. That plan is there. Of course, we can't deliver all which so many parts of our economy and our society want in a single go. And the reason we can't do that is we don't want to unravel or harm the progress that we are making in suppressing this disease and implementing a vaccination programme.