Mattie McGrath Demands Unified Laws on Stray Horses and Cruelty

What a good, and thank all the deputies that contributed. A tradition cannot act as a veto on legal responsibilities. You have been quoting Minister McConnell, who went off and did not even stay for the full debate. He probably would not have been here at all, only for he had to make the question of the record for something else. I mean, you're quoting the Animal Health Act in 2013, 1993, Roads Act, and as Deputy Quinn Livin said, 43 years ago, this issue of horses, a stray horse was brought up by former Deputy McClure, 43 years ago. You can reel out all the legislation you like, but clearly you're getting calls to your office, you see it yourself. All our deputies are, and I thank the people who came, and are interested in sorting out this, it's not working, clearly. And I support the Department of Agriculture, and thank the officials, and the Council, and the Gardaí, for the way they tried to work, but clearly it's a mismatch, and there's no coherent, decent legislation. In England, the United Kingdom, they have a dedicated, it's not the Council, it's not the Department, they have a dedicated police unit for dealing with this, and we had the stories there of what happened in symmetries and grave rounds. You know, that's just not acceptable. People have to respect that, and I have those problems myself in Tipperary, especially in Cashel. But look, I mean, I'm not a killjoy, and I'm not a fount of knowledge, so I'm shocked that the government can close their eyes to this. I've raised this house first party three years ago, if that was even the first time, two years ago I'd brought it forward again, and things have only got worse, and the animal cruelty. And you think you had money to throw away, the money that you've given to the Fund in the last five years, 12 million I think. It's a shocking amount of money, and I know what it costs. I know the number of hostels that have been euthanized. It's shocking, and the cruelty involved. So, rather than deal with the problem, and have proper meaning for legislation, with powers that can be clearly enforced, not a bit in the council, and a bit in the department, and a bit elsewhere, and a bit in animal welfare, proper to deal with this issue up front. We have a very respectable and proud racing and horse-owning petition. And indeed, I didn't refer to it earlier, but it was wonderful to see, especially in the cities and towns, a horse-drawn carriage with the Guinness, and a horse-drawn carriage with all kinds of livery goods. I have a huge respect and relationship between the Irish people and the horses. And now it's gone to new and international highs, with the race-housing skills that we have temporarily, with Coole Moore and Aidan O'Brien and his family, and Tommy Stack. Look, I could name them for the day. We're very proud of them. And they give a lot of employment too. And the way they treat their horses. So, I'm hoping, and my real effort was, that the government wouldn't just reject this cast of Matthew McGrath's bill. I mean, all the deputies that spoke admit, if they're honest, and they have been honest, and said it's a problem. And Deputy Kenny has issues with an impact of them, and they accept that. And maybe the prohibition is the wrong word, but we must engage and try and have this brought in under, you know, one piece of legislation where it can't be held with a licence. I'd love to ask the Minister, but he's not here now, how many, he said that you have to have a month's notice, give a month's notice, an application to the department, and to get, and to get the Chicana to run a race. How many applications have you got in the department? How many? How many applications have you refused in the department for these licences, for a month's notice? How many have you been granted for this licence? I don't know what you're saying, but you can tell me privately or whatever afterwards, but that's what I'm going to ask you. I mean, you're all flowery language there, but it's meaningless. Pass the book, that's the proper language. Pass the book, we've another department now, yeah. Pass the book, around the house. Around the kitchen and mind the dresser. Remember the famous man in Cayley House, what's his name? You're here long and I am, you'll remember him. His name eludes me, but Ciarán O'Hannoran, his trust indeed. Around the house and mind the dresser. Around the country and mind the departments. The department of agriculture, the gallery, the county council, the health authorities. But you're not doing it. So why don't you bring forward a piece of legislation, robust legislation, with all your departments and all your resources and deal with it? Not come in here and just kind of rubbish dish and say because it's a tradition. In fact, it's not a tradition. A horse, an affinity with horses, especially with the travel community, is a long-standing commission. And I have fond memories of the sweep coming, Mr. O'Connor and his wife, with the mule actually drawing the back-top wagon and a donkey at the back. And the engagement with the people and the families. And they used to make lovely coal shuttles. And when I built the house in 1984, I bought a coal shuttle off them. And it's still around. The fastsmanship that was in that is unbelievable. So, I mean, we can work with this together and we can deal with it and we can get it off track. And I'd ask you, Deputy Hayden, from the Plains of Kildare, as well as the Coahuila, even though I would claim that we have more racing prowess in Tipperary than you have, but nonetheless that can be seen on the racetracks. To engage with horse racing Ireland. To engage with, you know, the different tracks that are there. And many underutilised racecourses. To see if there could be days organised. Now, the people that phoned me today from Galway say the sulky racing can't go on a track. I don't know the reason for that. I won't know till I meet him. But I think it's much safer and easier for any animal. The greyhound's running but to run on sand surface. Because it's clearly not, couldn't be good to have him on without any shoes or running on the tyre road. As cannae was to run from here to Kildare, you'd have fairly sore limbs and fairly sore ankles and all as well. So, animals then running racing at speed. So, listen, animal cruelty isn't right here as well. And I salute the animal refuges. And it's not fair that they have to pick up the tabs. And I know every year before Christmas, probably next week will be announced. You'll probably have them already ready to send out the letters of torn stops of funding to animal rescues. And it's very much needed. But they are operating on a shoestring. And they do tremendous work. And we need to support them. Like, there's huge cruelty issues. And there's huge anomalies here in Minnesota. There's no point in the past that 43 years ago Deputy Lippert raised it. I raised it two years ago. I'm raising it again. Will we do something about it, please? I am surprised that no Fianna Fáil or no Fianna Gael backbenchers or indeed Labour or indeed Social Democrats are interested in this. I mean, they were here last week, the Social Democrats, two weeks ago trying to ban and destroy our very vital greyhound industry. And we have all these issues. And this is going under our noses. And we want to turn the blind out of it. And turn backwards and blindfold ourselves. When serious incidents are taking place and it's a serious threat to human safety. Serious threat to human safety. And as I said, I'm no killjoy. So, I want to work with them. I'd love to have an all-party group committee here that would work with them. I know we've an all-party, or actors committee, dealing with traveller issues now. But this is an issue that should be dealt with. And it could be very enjoyable and very resourceful. And a lot of badly needed revenue for the Department of Finance, Mr Deputy O'Donoghue. As it is in other countries. So we're not going to, we're so insular here. We won't look abroad to see best practice. And we won't see. But this is going on in every, well, a lot of constituencies. And TDs are getting calls for it. But for whatever reason, they don't want to talk about it. But I mean, it's just, it's just talk about hiding under, sleeping under the carpet. It must be dealt with it. And I'm quite appalled that Mr. McConnell O'Donoghue and yourself come in to see him and just rubbish this. Instead of saying, look, I'm not saying it's perfect. Take the bill, embrace it, put it in for scrutiny. And indeed, discuss with the different committees, agriculture, transport, you name it, and others, maybe health as well. And try and come together with a formula that we work together to try and enhance this situation and try and improve it. And try and, as I said, I got about 60 WhatsApp messages this evening and an hour from sulky owners and racers all over the country. And they are interested. They're worried because I was trying to do something that's not. I'm not. I'm interested in working with them. And I did get threatened the last time for what's worked. And I hope it won't happen this time, that I'll be shot in Dublin for bringing up this issue. We can't have this kind of threats in a modern democracy. We can't be all afraid to deal with it. Because the vast majority of people involved, as I said, I know many of them involved, are 100%. But there's a rogue element. And the people that spoke to me today accept that. That must be weeded out. So look, it's time that we grasp the nittle. And you grasp the nittle and so many other things that are nice and dandy, and you like to assume, and they're nice and policies that you think will go down well with the media, and you do research and polls to know what the people want. The people want their children to be safe in their care when they bring them to the school or to college. The people want to know, a husband or wife, that the wife's going to work, a pregnant woman, is not forced off the road upside down into a field when a whole road is taken over. And you expect that, with two on duty in a station like Cale, to go up and stop a race in the old N8, which is used regularly, with maybe 30 or 40 sulkies and maybe a couple hundred people and vans and cows. Mayhem. Mayhem. There's no point in ignoring it. You know what the problem is there. We try and deal with it. And I know that the horse project that Jonathan Erwin was involved in, in the prison, is very important. And they're all there, but they're all individual efforts. So, the Nathalie Curley Cale, make an effort together here in this parliament. It's our duty to protect the public. It's our duty to protect animal welfare. And it's our duty to protect the Gardaí as well, given plenty of support, and given the powers, and the department officials, and the county council officials, and the horse wardens, and whoever else. And we need a horse warden in Tipperary badly. And, you know, but it's not there. We're scratching at the surface. We're thinking around with it, pardon the pun. And we're fooling ourselves to think that it's not necessary. As I said, the new Minister of McConnell will come in. It might not be happening in Donegal, I don't know, but he should know more about this than come in and just read out this kind of a spiel and say he's flatly refusing to discuss this. So, I'm hoping that this will go at it again, and we'll work together with the people involved. And Deputy Kenny has been involved with his groups out there. And I'd love to go and see that track, somebody to hand this track, which Joe said I would before. I'd like to see, because I like to learn as well. It's a bad day if we don't learn something. Gourmachagut.