Mattie McGrath urges use of empty hospital for COVID-19 isolation

The Minister, I want to begin my remarks here this evening by immediately complimenting our medical staff and all of those research specialists who are working tirelessly to meet the challenges that are being presented by the coronavirus of COVID-19. We know that containment remains the top priority for all countries and this is very worrying and very serious. According to the World Health Organization, management of the COVID-19 globally, however, it is not a one-size-fits-all approach and must be tailored to the transmission scenario each country faces. Early robust measures which are key to saving lives and hearting transmission need to be implemented here on Tearshen in Ireland. Measuring the effectiveness is something that may only become clear in time. It is absolutely vital then that we do all we can to interrupt human-to-human transmission, including reducing secondary infections among close contacts and healthcare workers, preventing transmission events and preventing further international spread. Many of the concerns that have been raised with me, as I'm sure have been with most other members of this House and all politicians and indeed the most the public and with healthcare people, centre around the capacity of the HSE and our wider health prevention system to cope with the virus, should it become more widespread among the general public ministers. There is general worry and concern and the feeling of hopelessness and haplessness and I know that your subcommittee and yourselves and all the agencies I said are doing their best but just people are worried because they don't have much because they don't have much because they don't have huge faith in the HSE across a wide range of areas. So we wish them well in their endeavours here but just people are concerned and rightly concerned and as Dr Murphy said a minute ago, you wouldn't listen to the people and have a habit of not listening. We already know that before this outbreak, the state of our preparedness was not exactly one class and that's I think acknowledged by all and we heard some more concerns today about the Midwest from Deputy Honolady. In fact, if anything COVID-19 has exposed the extent to which the chronic capacity issues within our hospitals can lead, become easily overwhelmed. We see that day in day out with the trolley crisis and the people not even on trolleys anymore, on chairs and on stools and anything they can sit on. And South Tipperary and the county I represent and South Tipperary General and indeed Limerick University Hospital are the worst affected nearly in the country on a daily basis with trolleys. And Limerick's paths are pretty modern but Clonmel is an older hospital and the space isn't there. In comparison, we have this league of comparisons of the worst hospitals for trolleys and trolley watch. It's much worse in a place like Clonmel, which is an old building and there's a manner of corridors and you accept that yourself. Minister, you came to see a hospital in Clashley and I think you were pretty taken aback at the extensive range of the facilities there and being unused and you indeed admitted that yourself so you might comment when you were replying. I've already suggested locally, for example, that given the ongoing capacity issues facing South Tipperary General Hospital, it may be more prudent for the HSE to consider locating its Coronavirus Isolation Units at Our Lady's Hospital in Catechle. Well, you did come one day with colleagues and myself and saw that it's empty. The top floor is empty. There are activities going on on the ground and we appreciate that and we can't have them interrupted. But from a point of view of isolation, I think it's ideally located and it's a relatively modern building. This was after the HSE confirmed that it has identified isolation units in all acute hospitals, including South Tipperary General, where specific multidisciplinary virus preparedness committees will also be created and we welcome those as well. I accept, of course, that the priority here has to be about maintaining patient safety and minimising the risk to the general population should the case of coronavirus be identified in temporary and indeed ensuring the safety and protection of all the healthcare workers and nurses and doctors and the general team, from the porters to the consultants. That has to be number one. But it also has to be about maximising the best use of existing resources in such a way that will not cause greater level of disruption than I wanted in an already overstretched health system. I couldn't say that strong enough because we are overstretched and there is trauma and stress and we don't want to make that worse. That is why I think the HSE should at least explore the possibility of locating the isolation unit in a hospital facility such as our ladies, where the impact on patient care can be minimised. There are no beds, there are no patients in the hospital as such. There are daycare cases, some in the under, but there are not. There are some child facilities, I acknowledge that as well, our special needs facilities, and they can be relocated if necessary. South Tipperary General is already at absolute capacity and under enormous pressure to maintain normal services, as is University of Limerick. It makes sense, therefore, to see if we can make a positive use of Cashflow Hospital, especially as most people would generally accept that it has the potential to offer more and a wider range of services. If it turns out, on foot of the expert advice, that locating the isolation units in Cashflow or ladies in Cashflow are not appropriate, then that advice must, of course, be deferred in the interest of patient safety. But I don't want the usual excuse rolled out that there's no lift and it's not accessible. There's something wrong there, £22.5 million was spent in that complex after closing down as a hospital. And I cannot, it's just an outrageous situation to have a line empty. I also think that much more needed to be done in terms of advice to workers and employers. We know that OECD have already warned that the virus presents the global economy with its greatest danger since the last financial crash. And that's a pretty stark warning. Pretty stark warning. Meanwhile, the Minister for Finance has said that what he will do is review the economic effect and see if high-policy action is needed for the government. This seems totally absurd to me, Minister. Surely he must be examining it now and not waiting for it to happen and trying to deal with it afterwards. Why are we still having this wait-and-see approach from the Minister and the government when we know that even as we speak, businesses, schools and tourism has been negatively impacted and affected? We know that. We need a proportional response and I absolutely accept that fact. But the kind of measured response will only come if the public and the business community are convinced that the appropriate protective measures are in place. During the SARS epidemic in 2003, this House debated a motion aimed at assessing the level and the adequacy of the state's response. That debate centered on the actions of the Minister for Health, Deputy Micheál Martin at the time. It was felt that at the time there was a serious erosion of confidence in the public health service arising from the mishandling of the SARS threat by the Minister for Health and the issuing of inadequate, confusing, contradictory communications. Surely we will learn from our mistakes. We must learn from our mistakes. The motion also noted that these failures were symptomatic of a more general failure by government to effectively and efficiently manage the health service at a time of unprecedented spending. The HSE was set up under his watch. And here we have the bedlam and the ensuing confusion and distress to the public out there. We're supposed to be here serving. It's Tocchi Dali and it's in Tishin. We're meant to be serving the public and we haven't been. Some parts of the motion could have been written yesterday, Minister, because in many respects we do not appear to have learned many lessons almost 17 years on. And that's so sad. We had the experience of that SARS outbreak and we should have learned from our mistakes and be ready. There is still a need to deliver a more comprehensive public information campaign, Minister. Still a huge need for that. The public feel like they are in the dark. When that happens, then rumour and panic can spread. We all know that. We must do all we can to prevent that while ensuring that we hold those responsible for effective public health and safety to account, Minister. And I just am hugely concerned, as many people are, and I also am aware of the efforts that the churches are doing and schools are doing and people in public areas are doing to minimise any risk. But, Minister, you saw that hospital in Cashel. It's a shame and a scandal in 2020 to have that line empty after 12.5 million is printed on the building itself and the rest was printed on the complex, some doing really valuable work in elderly services and everything else, and to see it empty. And I think it could be fortuitous that this epidemic, which is unfortunate, could force it to be opened. Because there's a resistance in the HSE to open it. And people, on chairs and trolleys in Limerick and in Waterford and elsewhere. So, please, I ask you to examine that. You saw it, you know it, your officials saw it. So, I please, I ask you to examine that. Thank you very much. We move now to Deputy Chair.