Richard Boyd Barrett: End University Fees, Opposes Ministerial Pay Hike

Thanks. Congratulations again on your victory. I very much welcome the establishment of a ministry for higher education and research. It's a very positive move. If we needed to have underlined the importance of investing in research, we couldn't look much further than the lessons of the pandemic itself and the need to invest heavily in, you know, researching in medicine among other areas. And clearly there is a deficit in areas like that. But we have a lot of skilled, talented young people, graduates, post graduates and so on. And we need to invest invest in them and in research that will really benefit our society. And I hope that lesson is more obvious than ever after COVID-19. But I think it's got to be the purpose of this ministry should be critically to ensure absolutely the widest and most unfettered access to higher education that is possible. And one key aspect of that surely should be to eliminate all fees for people trying to enter into third level education or to do postgraduate degrees. They shouldn't have to suffer some of the highest fees in the European Union. 3,000 euro registration fee for undergraduates, 6,000 for people doing masters. That is completely unacceptable. It was unacceptable before COVID-19, but it is entirely unacceptable now where many of the opportunities that undergraduate students, for example, would have had to do summer jobs to earn the money for their fees are gone and where their parents may have suffered reductions in income or loss in employment. All together. We, if we seriously want to open up education, if we see the importance of education, if we see the importance of it, then we have to remove all financial obstacles, eliminate all fees in order to provide that the widest possible access to education. And people, of course, of course, of course, of course, of course, the socialists again, they think there's a free money tree. We don't really have the money for that. Let me point out that we as a proportion of GDP spend one of the lowest amounts on public services generally. including an education, health and just about every other key public service of our GDP of almost any country in Europe. That isn't a radical idea that we should invest more in public services in key areas like education, higher education. It is standard across Europe. The problem is that we redirect resources away from higher and third level education towards tax breaks for research and development for big wealthy multinational corporations who then pay pitons of tax. So rather than invest money in research in our public universities, we give nearly a billion euro a year in tax breaks, research and development tax breaks to some of the wealthiest corporations in the world. Now, it seems to me they have enough money, they have enough wealth, we should be closing down those tax loopholes and redirecting that seven or eight hundred million euro a year that goes to a handful of multinational corporations into our universities to remove things like fees, to remove things like fees, to invest in more research and greater access to higher and third level education. So, I might have left my points at that and said I absolutely welcome this bill but of course there's a big difficulty is that this bill and the setting up of this new ministry is linked then to something absolutely scandalous. which are the plans to increase the already high salaries of junior ministers from 124,000 euro to an additional 16,000 euro on top of that as if 124,000 isn't enough. And when I challenged Minister O'Donoghue on this last night and asked him how could he possibly justify this he said well isn't it fair to expect equality in pay around the cabinet table. And I thought about this for a minute and then I thought oh the government believes in pay equality in the public service. So that's why people who get 124,000 couldn't possibly work beside other ministers who are on higher salaries doing the same jobs. So we have to give them a 16,000 euro increase. It's only fair we have to have equality until you remember that that same principle of equality in the public service including in education apparently does not apply to teachers who are on a fraction of that salary. It's okay for teachers entering after 2011 into education to earn less substantially less when they enter than teachers working beside them doing exactly the same jobs. That inequality is okay but it's not okay for ministers around the cabinet table. It's also okay for lecturers in higher education who before 2011 entered on 42,000 euro a year now to enter on 38,000 euro a year. That pay inequality is okay but of course we cannot possibly have pay inequality for ministers on 124,000. We've got to give them an additional 16,000 euro. That is scandalous double standards. And I think maybe those double standards more than anywhere will be felt by our nurses and frontline health workers. Because of course they were the ones who protected us and continue to protect us at great personal cost during the midst of the pandemic. And what did those health workers get as their reward from the state for losing their lives for getting the highest infection rates in COVID-19 of health workers anywhere in the world. They got a round of applause. Not a pay reward. Not a pay increase. Not pay equality. They got a round of applause. So I suggest we give a round of applause to the new junior ministers but don't give them the pay increase. That's what we should do. We could save this pay increase by just giving the ministers a round of applause. The same as they gave the nurses who protected us. They didn't give them a 16,000 euro pay increase. They gave them a round of applause. Hollow. Hollow thanks for the workers on the frontline who protected us. But ministers must have pay equality and they must get 16,000 euro. The double standards of that are frankly nauseating. And they will not be lost on people out there. You know I just come from a meeting in the COVID-19 committee of taxi drivers who are financially on their knees. You think about students who have to pay the registration fees who don't have summer jobs. How are they going to pay the fees that they are being charged now for maybe attending lectures one day a week. And they'll still be charged some of the highest fees imaginable. You think about the arts and entertainment and music people who have seen their incomes decimated. But the junior ministers have to get a pay increase from 124,000 euro and add 16,000 on top of that. It is absolutely shocking. And it really leaves us with little choice. Even though we would like to support a bill that is about creating an important new department and ministry in something important like higher education and research. Which we would want to support. But how on earth can we possibly support giving a pay increase to already massively paid junior ministers. If they need pay equality around the cabinet table why don't they reduce the pay of the senior ministers. That would be a better way to achieve the pay equality wouldn't it. That would be a bit fair. That would send out a fair signal to people out there who are suffering at the moment. Because of the economic fallout of COVID-19. So that is my suggestion. Last Count Corle. Let's give the junior ministers a round of applause instead of giving them 16,000 euro in a pay increase. Very much Deputy Richard Bide Barrett. I don't think there's anybody else offering that hasn't spoken already. So I'm going back to the minister for reply. Minister you have five minutes. Thanks. Last Count Corle. At the beginning I'd like to congratulate yourself on your election to the office of Last Count Corle. To wish you well in it. And to remark on what you said yesterday in your few words. That it is historic I think in this parliament that you're the first lady, woman, person to hold the office of Last Count Corle. A fabulous achievement and to wish you well. I'd like to thank all the speakers in the debate. We initiated this bill yesterday in the Shannon. And there was a number of contributions there. And a number of issues raised. I'd like to thank all the speakers who have raised the issues here in the Dáil Chamber. Sitting in the Convention Centre. A number of issues which have been raised were again raised yesterday. As has been pointed out by Deputy James Lawless, my colleague. The idea, the inception of this department was an idea of the Fianna Fáil party. Of the Taoiseach Michal Martin, who is a previous Minister for Education. And it was something which we adopted as a policy, as a party in opposition. And very happy to say that it was actively engaged in and with by the Fianna Gael party and the Green party. As part of the Formation for Government talk. So here we are putting together the legislation to enable the establishment of this new department of further higher education, research, innovation and science. And it's very, very important that we have a dedicated department for many, many reasons. Which have been articulated by all the speakers. But even for practical reasons like at our budget time, which will be coming up later in the year. Where Minister Harris and myself will be presenting ourselves to the Minister for Public Expenditure and the Minister for Finance. And we will be able to argue and seek funding and resourcing for the higher and further education sector on a stand alone basis. And we won't be going there as a bigger department was previously concerning other parts of education. Which are obviously very, very important also. But this will be a dedicated focus on further education, training, research, science and innovation. Just want to remark in relation to a lot of the comments which were echoed here today in relation to the need for sustainable funding for our higher education sector. That is without a doubt one of the biggest challenges which will face this department. We know that the CASELS report has been published now over four years. And it has been in the system, in the Oireachtas. It has been through the previous department and it's now with the European Commission. And there will have to be decisions made in relation to the future funding of our third level colleges. And particularly as has been rightly pointed out by a number of speakers with a significant drop off in the international student base which is going to be experienced this year. Just to mention in relation to the funding which was announced earlier this week, 168 million. And to welcome the fact that our higher and our further education institutions and colleges up and down the country have indicated that they are ready to open in September to receive first years and to receive their other students. And that they are preparing and they have confirmed to Minister Harris that they are at a state of readiness. The government stepped up to the plate, gave 168 million euros to recognise the contribution for the national frontline response to date. To resource them and to equip them to make their campuses ready, to make themselves digitally ready, to prepare themselves online. There's money being provided to resource students, 15 million euros for students to purchase laptops, tablets, internet connectivity. The Student Assistance Fund has been doubled from 8 million to 16 million. There is a figure of 3 million euros has been made available for student mental health which is hugely important. A figure of 2 million euros has been made available for the fund for students with disabilities and marginalised students, for example, the traveller community, which is very, very important. And research hasn't been forgotten either. 48 million euros has been made available to fund the ongoing research which has been impacted also by the COVID pandemic. I want to just be clear also that this department will have a very, very strong focus on further education. The agencies like Sullus, for example, are charged with driving through our ETBs. The further education and training which is required right around the country. It's not all about institutes of technology, our universities, our further education and training and our apprenticeships have an acute focus and will have an acute focus of this department. There will be shortly the publication of an apprenticeship action plan which will address the many issues around apprenticeships, broadening the range of apprenticeships, addressing the gender imbalance, resourcing apprenticeships and making sure that more is done in that space to deal with the changing Ireland and the changing demand for skills in so many sectors right across our country. And that was also recognised in the July stimulus. Just to conclude by saying and agreeing and echoing what so many speakers have said in relation to the evolution and the development of this country over the year. Why do we have such a strong FDI foreign direct investment base in this country which provides huge, huge gainful employment to so many people in every community up and down this country? Because we are obviously a member of the EU, we are common law, our taxation policy which has been part of a bigger debate with the apple tax. But because of our research and our innovation, skills and capabilities and also because of our skilled workforce which has come through our education and our training functions. So with that few words I want to just wrap up and thank everybody for their contributions and amend the bill. Thank you Minister. Thank you very much.