Richard Boyd Barrett condemns minister pay rises amid PUP cuts

That's really not good enough, Minister. I'll tell you who deserves pay rises for their level of responsibility. The nurses and the health workers who fought on the front line to protect our health. The many workers in retail and other essential frontline services, often very, very low paid workers who worked throughout the pandemic, they deserve a paying increase. But I'll tell you who do not deserve pay increases, and that's politicians and ministers. And it is really shocking and disgusting that junior ministers on €124,000, about three times the average industrial wage, about three times what your average nurse would get, are now to get an additional €124,000. Jack Chambers, I believe, Hildegard Nocton, and Pippa Hackett. I mean, it's just extraordinary. Is €124,000 not enough for these people that they have to get an additional €16,000 on top? And this is to be done at the very same time that the government is planning to cut the PUP payments over the coming period. From 350 down to 300, and for others, further down to 250, and for others, down to 200. So workers who have lost their jobs and their incomes through no fault of their own as a result of a pandemic, and indeed government imposed necessary public health guidelines, but through no fault of their own, are to see their income outcomes slashed, where it may be very difficult for them to return to work, or simply be not possible for them to return to work, but junior ministers on €124,000 are going to get an additional €16,000. I mean, seriously, Minister, it is shocking. Do you really think that's the right signal to send out? Do you really think that that is just in the current climate, when hundreds of thousands of workers in this country are facing serious hardship, serious uncertainty, or simply are not able to go back to work because of the situation we're in? Could you maybe give us a better explanation or justification for that? You refer to them as deputies rather than just their names, please. Minister. Yeah, thanks, Deputy Bide Barrett. And can I just say to start, I mean, I know that I said it, I suppose, already to Deputy Shortall, the reason and the rationale for increasing the number of ministers that sit at the Cabinet table was laid out by the three-party leaders when the Government was formed. There are increasing demands, Deputy, and you and I, and every other Deputy in the House, have them. There was a suggestion of departments being abolished. There was suggestions of departments being merged in advance of the Programme for Government, all of which different interest groups, different lobbies, different deputies, all who opposed. There was suggestions before the Government was formed that new departments were needed. The Government is limited by the 1937 Constitution to limit the number of people with seals of office sitting at the Cabinet table to 15. After that, decisions have to be made as to how the various different interests, demands, societal, economic, and otherwise are going to be represented at Cabinet. And the decision was taken in the Programme for Government. It was published in the Programme for Government. It's on the back page of it. It's not, you know, something that was concealed. It wasn't something that was dreamt up. It was designed to make sure that specific areas, for instance, in my own party, Minister Hildegard Nocton, as you referred to, will take overall responsibility for aviation and other elements of the transport sector, which I know from the previous style, having been a Minister in the Department of Transport, yourself and myself, Deputy, would have clashed on a number of occasions. And I think that sector, along with other sectors, have grown so massively that the 1937 Constitution, which is the real issue here, is no longer fit for purpose in terms of dividing out responsibilities within Government to people who need to represent particular sectors. And if people are sitting at the Cabinet table, I think everybody would accept it, and they have responsibility, and they take that responsibility to this House and the other House, then they should be treated the same as other Ministers that are sitting at the Cabinet table. And I think for that, they need to be accountable to the House, and the accountability will continue in this House. And just in relation to what you asked about other workers, you're absolutely right. That's why we have committed, and I said it here last night, to the 2% increase that is already committed to for public servants, which will have a significant impact on the finances of the state for this year, but we're committed to it. And we're also committed to it, and Minister McGrann made it very clear, that he's committed to opening up discussions as soon as possible with representatives of employees within the civil and public services, and employers, to make sure that in the context of COVID, and we've all learnt a lot from COVID, that the new way of addressing pay over the next number of years will have to reflect the points that you've raised, which are no different, Deputy, to the points I've raised. And nobody has a monopoly, I think, and concern in relation to low pay. We all do. We all have family members that might be regarded by some as low pay. So I think this government has started on an agenda, you will see it later on, to stimulate the economy, to put more people back to work, to keep people at work, and spend a significant amount of money which will be voted through from this department, some of which might require legislation, but it is designed to support the people that you've called out here today, and that you routinely call out, and that I support you on. But we have to do it in a way in which is reflective, I think, of the current climate that we're in, and we'll do that. And Deputy, we welcome your support. Minister Gourmaghud and Tara Aran, Doctor. I'll support you if you give our nurses and frontline healthcare workers the pay rise they deserve, and get rid of the absolutely shameful pay inequalities suffered by public servants at every level in the public service, where new entrants have to suffer the indignity of working on lower pay than people doing exactly the same job just because they came in after a certain arbitrary date when austerity was imposed on them. But whatever way you cut it, Minister, in the current climate, where you are talking about cutting the pandemic payments for people who have lost jobs and income as a result of a public health crisis over which they have no control, and then to give junior ministers a €16,000 increase, is to put it mildly, sending the wrong signals, and to put it not so mildly, absolutely disgraceful. If you want equality at the Cabinet table, maybe the senior Cabinet ministers could have cut their pay a little to show a little leadership for people who are suffering out there and are on fractions of the salaries and wages that they are on. Good. Minister, you only have 12 seconds. Yeah, I'll be very brief. Look, Deputy, in your earlier contribution, and I meant to say it, I acknowledge the support you've given for the temporary wage subsidy scheme and the pandemic unemployment benefit payment. We are in a situation in this estimate where four-fifths of our spending has already been reached, so we do need to make sure that if this estimate, for the very people you talk about, for nurses, for public servants who are on various different levels of pay, that the estimate is passed in order to make sure that we can pay salaries and pay pensions next week or shortly after it, because if we go over that four-fifths limit, we won't have the power as a Government to do that. But the Government responded initially, and I thank you for your support, by way of about €16 billion to shore up this economy to make sure it didn't go down the tubes like it did in 2008, and we're going to continue on that today. And it is also important to point out that in relation to the two schemes that you referenced, I think 50,000 people came off of it at the last count, 35,000 the count before. So we are getting people back to work, and that needs to be acknowledged as well. Goedemiddag, goonthara. Goedemiddag, goonthara.com. Goedemiddag.com. Goedemiddag.com.