Richard Boyd Barrett demands urgent debate on Apple 13 billion ruling
Richard Boyd Barrett addressed the Dáil about the upcoming General Court of the European Union ruling in the Apple tax case and urged the government not to continue supporting Apple’s appeals. He argued the last government, with the support of Fianna Fáil, appealed the EU Commission decision instead of securing 13 billion in unpaid taxes that are urgently needed during the Covid crisis.
Call for immediate government statements
He called for statements from the government immediately after the ruling, insisting the public needs to hear whether the state will stop backing Apple’s efforts to avoid paying taxes owed to the country.
Criticism of the previous government’s appeal
He criticised the last government for appealing the Commission’s decision and said that, in the context of Covid and heavy public costs, appealing the award of those revenues would be unacceptable.
Fiscal context and urgency related to Covid
He noted the Covid bill for the State could reach up to 20 billion and said securing tax revenues from Apple could fundamentally transform the country’s economic and financial situation.
Procedural realities and call for an informed debate
The speech also acknowledged practical limits highlighted by other speakers - that 13 billion would not be immediately available even if the Commission’s position is upheld, that further appeals could delay access, and that any debate should be informed. Discussion on scheduling statements and the Business Committee’s role in arranging time for debate was pursued, with ministerial availability under consideration.
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The President of the Business Committee this morning requesting that tomorrow or this week that there needed to be statements on foot of the General Court of the European Union's ruling which will come out tomorrow on the Apple tax case. Now, this is not a small matter, Count Corlea. We will get a ruling tomorrow on whether the decision of the EU Commission to award the revenue, 13 billion in unpaid taxes plus interest from Apple, is going to be upheld or not. Now, regrettably, the last government, with the support of Fianna Fáil, appealed that decision, supported Apple, rather than taking 13 billion we need. Now, whatever about the last government, in the context of Covid, where there's a bill for this country that we're looking at up to 20 billion euro, the costs for Covid, it would be nothing short of economic treason to appeal against a decision that awards those tax revenues to this country when we need them desperately to cover the bill of the Covid crisis. So, we need to hear, and the people of this country need to hear, this week, immediately after that ruling, from the government, hopefully to tell us that they are not going to further support Apple in its efforts to avoid paying taxes owed to this country of that magnitude, which could make or transform our economic and financial situation fundamentally. So, that's what I believe should happen, and I think the government should agree to it, because it's too serious of a matter with two enormous implications for this country. Thank you, Deputy Deputy, Standing Orders 29, 31 and 33 make it clear that the taking of this type of business is a matter either for private member's time or for government time. So, do people want us to convene a business committee or is it likely? I understand the government is under intense pressure to get through its business, but what is it? Well, let's hear from the Taoiseach. I mean, it's the business committee orders the House, obviously trying to balance the need for government time, and there's been two attempts to change the business, which I appreciate, people are entitled to do that. By the way, the £13 billion isn't available, even if there was a decision to uphold the Commission's position. The government's position is not to support anybody, any company, other than to say that it was not a state aid, and that the independence of our revenue and its credibility cannot be undermined. But the idea that the £13 billion is available next week is just not true, and is a dishonest presentation of the situation. And you can take it, whatever happens, and I don't know what's going to happen in terms of the decision, the money isn't readily available to Ireland, and I think there will be others in the queue. And, of course, nothing can be accessed until the full appeals mechanisms are exhausted. So there's a potential appeal by another party to this that would basically mean that no one could access the funding. That said, you know, I have no issue with a debate on the Apple ruling. I think it should be an informed debate. I think I'm not sure how lengthy the judgment will be tomorrow, how ready the Dáil will be to, you know, have a meaningful debate on it tomorrow or Thursday. I think we should have an informed debate on it. And I would welcome that. So I don't see an issue there. But it could be. But there is an exhaustive legislative programme here. And the reason for that legislative programme is to underpin economic recovery and to deal with Covid, particularly getting as much assistance as we possibly can out to small businesses and medium-sized companies out there in the economy, such as the Credit Guarantee Fund Bill and other bills. Is it reasonable, then, having regard to Deputy Boyd Barrett's proposal, that the business committee would consult with a view to making some time available on Thursday or early next week for a discussion on this? Sir, is it a business community to consult? I can see what ministerial availability there is. Apologies, Ken Carter. The only time we have is late Thursday evening. That's from a quick look at the schedule. But if you want to consult and advise me, I'll see what ministerial availability we can organise. OK. The Premier League will facilitate statements. But I think we are talking about ... I'm not going to create a person. I have no difficulty in statements. No later than early next week? It could be next week. No, not could, will be. The probability is that the time would be available next week, and the business committee should agree on that.
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