Richard Boyd Barrett challenges soaring childcare costs and closures

Number 53 in the name of Deputy Richard Boyd. Barrett, you have 30 seconds to introduce. Minister, I raised with you the plight of a creche in my own area where a significant number of parents faced either a major hike in charges and some lost their places because of Tuesday's demands to change things in that creche. And those parents are still asking to meet you. I know I appreciate you gave me a response there recently but they're not happy with the response and they're concerned not just about their particular plight but the wider issue that has emerged of absolutely the highest childcare costs anywhere in this country which are higher than most of Europe are in our area and the lack of places, right? But they also don't accept, if you like, the contentions of Tuzla around the circumstances which led to 20 places effectively going in that facility. Let me just, okay, answer you first in general. The government, as you are aware, I think has delivered an unprecedented package of measures to improve access to high quality and affordable childcare investment in the sector has increased by 138% over the last five budgets. The investment has also helped to bring about a doubling of capacity and a doubling of the number of children receiving state subsidies. However, I do recognize that there are continuing capacity issues in parts of the country. The PUBL data has shown a vacancy rate of 4% across all services but these vacancies are not necessarily in the localities where parents are seeking childcare places. Staff of the 30 childcare committees across the country can provide practical assistance to any parents who have difficulty finding a service and their contact details can be found at myccc.gov.ie. I am committed to further increasing the capacity of the sector and I will be launching a capital grant program for 2020 shortly. I will be inviting providers to apply for grants to expand the capacity where demand exists. I am also ensured, I also ensured that the national development plan committed 250 million euros for the expansion of high quality childcare and that this funding will come on stream in 2023 and will provide a significant opportunity to develop further capacity. Many parents also opt for home-based or child mining provision and to that end I have recently consulted on a draft action plan for child miners which when finalized and implemented will see increased capacity in the heart of the sector also. With regard to affordability, I am aware that there is a concern for many parents particularly in your county which has the highest childcare costs in the state which you have identified. I am very pleased that the national childcare scheme has now commenced. I think it provides significant financial support to parents for childcare expenses and it does provide subsidies on a sliding scale so those who need most help will receive the highest subsidies. In addition, I have recently established an expert group to examine the current model of funding for childcare to ensure its effectiveness in delivering affordable and quality and sustainable services. One of the key objectives since becoming minister is to address affordability and availability but I recognise that there is an ongoing agenda with more to be done. Mr. Minister, two parents working on the average industrial wage will get €20 a week towards the cost of childcare. Now the increase of the crash I just mentioned as a result of the consequences of Tuzla's sort of requirements for that crash is greater than that. And they are up now I think it is about 1200 a month which is mind boggling frankly. Now on the specific I will only say they would like to meet you because in fact that crash was registered for 70 kids in 2016 and now they have been told in the middle of the year that is too many. That is a specific problem but they want to discuss the wider issue which is those sorts of costs are absolutely not sustainable. They are not sustainable and the lack of places in our area is really shocking. I mean just to give you one example of finishing this chair. The huge new residential development of the old Dun Laoghaire Golf Club where there are thousands of new residencies. As part of the planning permission for that there was supposed to be a major childcare facility. Never appeared, never appeared. And creches are full to capacity, they are too expensive and there are not enough places. And we really need quite radical and urgent action to address that. Deputy Boyd Barrett, they are 20 euros a week on an industrial wage is all they get. I am not questioning necessarily that particular couple but if they have a child under 3 that is 20 euros a week for any child under 3 for a universal subsidy. But if they are on an industrial wage they are also entitled to further additional supports. So my question would be have they actually gone on, applied for the national childcare scheme which determines how much of a subsidy they will receive. So I find, you know, I think they should be entitled to more, particularly on an industrial wage. That is the first thing to say. Secondly, I think you raised the issue to me particularly in relation to after school places. Is that correct as distinct from, you know, and talked about there was a change in terms of the numbers. They had to reduce the numbers because they needed more space, etc. And I said to you it's because of the regulations. And we have to follow the regulations. But that's not to say that and to address both gentlemen's questions in relation to plans in development and new housing development. And if there were childcare plans and the fact that there aren't childcare facilities, that is a difficulty. So I will go and see that we can look specifically in the areas that you identify as why there isn't that there. That is not to say that we don't have the capacity issue. It's challenging. I've identified the different things that we're doing in order to ensure that it increases. But that's not to say that it is always the case that that will happen. But I think it's too much of a charge to say we just don't have the numbers and it's a problem for government. We are doing different things. But I do hear what you're saying in terms of that there was promises in terms of development and housing development. And there should be childcare places that go along with that. Thank you, Minister. I don't disagree with that. Deputy Richard Boybar, your final supplement. I welcome your acknowledgement of the issues, Minister. And I will indeed check are they fully availing of the thing. I will check that. But at the levels of average costs in Dunleary Rat Down, it's just off the Richter scale. I think you would accept that. Right. Now, we need to address that. And the National Child Care Scheme just will barely scratch that. Right. And there's nothing indeed to stop the costs rising as the compliance requirements increase, that they will then get passed on and wipe out any benefit of the National Child Care Scheme when costs are already unaffordable. The failure of major residential developments to deliver stuff that, crash spaces that are actually on the plans and there were a condition of planning is absolutely unacceptable in my opinion. But what I would say, because my time has run out, I would really appreciate if you'd meet this group of parents. They're not coming in for a fight with you, Minister, but they want to, they want to really put the issue from their point of view and from the, from the affordability point, from the specifics of their case, but also just more generally, the problems we are facing in the entire South Dublin region in this area. They would really appreciate the chance to engage with you and so that those could be looked at. And I'm sure other areas want to make the same case, but they are the highest costs. And I think probably the biggest capacity problem is in South Dublin at the moment. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Your final reply. First of all, I don't think that we yet fully know and understand the impact that the, the, the, what the funding model that has just been put in place with the national childcare scheme, where you have a universal entitlement and you also have a legal financial entitlement on an income based measure for your childcare costs, according to the age of the child, how many, how long you want the child to be in the childcare facilities. So that's why I can't believe it's only 20 euros of subsidy. Secondly, in relation to the fee issue going up and down, the deputy is right to be exercised in light of the county that you, and the, the place where you represent, because it is the highest cost. I do, I do and appreciate and I understand that. I think what I'm also saying though, with the national childcare scheme, it's not necessarily the costs and fees are not necessarily going up. We will continue to monitor that. We are looking at the ways in which we can ensure that we can link more fees in relation to quality provision in terms of that expert group that I've identified. But honestly, deputy, I also have here, you know, a number of vacant places in your constituency, up to one year, 13 vacant places, one year plus to two years. There's 14 places available, two years plus to three years. We have 16 vacant places available. So I have a list as of June where there are vacant places available in terms of the capacity in your constituency. And finally, may I say, given the fact that you are representing people from the highest cost, yes, I will meet them.