Brendan Smith on Ulster Bank and KBC exits: Rural customers at risk

Minister, you may recall that I have been raised constantly in this house with you. The difficulties rising for customers of KBC and the Ulster Bank due to both of those banks exiting this state. As you know, the borough of the region, areas like Cavan Monaghan, had a very heavy reliance on the Ulster Bank. It had a great network of branches in the past. Unfortunately, that diminished big time. The exiting of these banks from the state, particularly the Ulster Bank, again creates further difficulties for people in areas like my own, where there would be a huge difference. ammunition in the level of financial services available. And of course, people are meeting ongoing difficulties in setting up new accounts with other financial institutions. Thank you, Oireacht. Thank you. Anthara. Thank you very much. I do want to acknowledge that Deputy Smith has been raising this issue with me from the very beginning, from the moment of which concerns did begin to raise and did begin to develop then regarding the future of Ulster Bank. And given the importance of that Bank in the communities that Deputy Smith recommends, he has raised this issue regularly here with me in the Dáil. As the Deputy will also know, while I do really regret the decision that has been made by Ulster Bank and KBC, I do not have a role to play in the operational decisions that they are making. But that being said, this is a matter of huge focus from our central bank and from the Department, and we are engaging very regularly now with the banks that are withdrawing on this matter. Both banks are now being met by my officials, at least on a monthly basis, where they provide information to the Department of Finance regarding account closures. And my department is now engaging regularly with the Central Bank of Ireland, with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, and the Banking Payments Federation of Ireland to ensure a cohesive and orderly manner approach to this issue. Both banks are providing their customers with six-month notice to close their accounts, and have committed not to close any branches this year. And I do think the advertising campaign that is underway in relation to this matter at the moment, Deputy Smith, I think is very prominent and has a very level of high profile, reminding consumers of what they do need to do. And in terms of the progress that is underway with this, on the 9th of September, the Central Bank released statistics on account change, which indicated that 24% of the current and deposit accounts that were open at the beginning of the year, at the beginning of the year in Ulster Bank and KBC had been closed by the end of August. So that points to the efforts that are underway to deal with this matter in a careful way. I want the remaining banks to have the resources in place to deal with the account migration that is underway. And I can assure Deputy Smith that the Central Bank and my own department will continue to monitor this matter really closely, because it is a very, very, very big project and matters deeply to those consumers and bank users that will be switching banks. Thank you, Minister. Minister, I want to put on the record here that your department and the Central Bank have had more engagement with stakeholders since we debated this issue early on in the process, and I welcome that. Minister, you say that at the end of August only 24% of the customers had closed their accounts. That means that 76% of the people have yet to close their accounts, with only 40% of the timeframe left. I do not think it is practical whatsoever to think that this process of migrating a huge number of accounts will be completed by the end of April next. So I think, Minister, the Central Bank, in consultation with the two banks, I know they cannot issue an edict, but I think they have to discuss what is realistic and what will happen. The last thing we need to see are accounts being closed automatically because people have not been able to meet the deadline. I know people, Minister, who are very, very IT literate. They could not transfer their accounts and set up new accounts online. Some of them sought meetings, some got meetings in banks, and I have to say that individual officials in different financial institutions have been very, very helpful to people when they got appointments. And again, Minister, the banks did not provide the additional personnel to their branches that they promised to provide. One bank quoted the number of additional staff they had taken on that did not itemise that quite a considerable proportion of those people were working abroad and not in branches in our state. Thank you, Mr Smith, for again raising this issue with me. And as I said to you, and I do agree with your point, that 24% is a big change for us where we were earlier on in the year, but there is still a huge amount that needs to be done. You are correct. The one point I would make back to you is, yes, of course, that means there are 76% of the accounts still open, but it does not mean that all of those accounts are still active. And if you look at the number of new accounts that have been set up in the three remaining banks, over 600,000 new accounts have been set up, which does point to consumers responding back to getting their accounts in order and making the change, getting ready to make the change. But look, do take your point, we do need to ensure that AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB are doing all they can to have the staff ready. I am aware of the concerns that have been raised about this. I know that at least one of the banks is planning to be open for four Saturdays in a row to get ready for this change, which does show the work that is underway. But myself and the central bank will continue to engage in this matter, because it is the biggest change to happen for many consumers of banking services in Ireland now for a long time. Thank you again, Minister. Minister, in the consultation that you and the central bank will have with the banks, I would urge again that there be ongoing contact with the Financial Services Union, who have a great overview of what is happening at branch level and throughout the state as well. And I compliment John O'Connell and his colleagues in the Financial Services Union on their advocacy on behalf, not just of their union members, on behalf of the public in general in regard to banking and banking services. Could I also say, Minister, that the central bank have indicated that staffing within the banks is not adequate and they have more or less said that the timeframe is questionable, how realistic it is. So, Minister, I know that the Irish Farmers Association, they have concerns, a huge amount of farmers will be getting payments from the middle of October. A lot of them have not their new accounts in place. Age Action Ireland have expressed concerns about people who have not had the opportunity to become familiar with IT and who are not able to go and open up accounts on a personal basis. So, Minister, there are issues there that the central bank and your department need to keep a constant eye and vigilance on, and I appreciate your ongoing support on this. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy. There are indeed important issues that we need to continue to monitor and play a role. Minister Fleming, of course, has reminded me of the role that our credit unions can play in also providing new services and new accounts to people who were former customers of the two banks that are leaving. I am very much aware of the point that Deputy Smith has made regarding that not everybody is able to access services digitally and through the use of IT. I do have information regarding the work that the different banks have done where they have provided telephone numbers and helplines for customers who may be vulnerable or may be experiencing the kind of difficulty that Deputy Smith has referred to. I am not going to take up the time of the House in reading out the telephone numbers this morning, but they are available. Customers do have a responsibility and need to play their role in getting ready for this change, but so do the banks, so do the Central Bank of Ireland, and so does my department, and we will certainly play our role. Thank you, Minister. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.