Brendan Smith on the Good Friday Agreement's Legacy and Economy

Thank you very much. Clearly again, delighted to listen to David and Rory and their excellent contributions. Apologies, I missed the very start of the meeting. I was delayed at an earlier meeting. But could I just say a few comments. Both of you paid tribute quite rightly to Mr Blair. I think we should always record that, his interest and his leadership at that particular time. The position we're in today, we wouldn't be there were it not for his major contribution. And I always think of people whom I'm sure you over the years had great interaction with. The late Kevin McNamara, Labour MP, and other people in all parties in Britain, who were great champions of the needs of the Irish community and Northern Ireland. That was at a time when it wasn't politically profitable for them in their own constituencies. And I recall MPs and some members of the House of Lords from Scotland, England and Wales being very much so interested in Ireland and not afraid to stand up in their respective house and make the case. In regard to the injustices that they saw that were inflicted on the nationalist community over the years. One theme coming across, and it came from Tim last week as well, that the strong partnership is needed between both governments to make progress, both at political and official level. I think that comes through very clearly today. You also mentioned the role of President Clinton, and I think some of the senior American people would tell us that President Clinton had been very much influenced by Senator Ted Kennedy and a group of people who worked closely alongside Senator Ted Kennedy. I remember listening to Ted Kennedy state that his family's support for President Clinton prior to his first election success was very much based on that he would have to take an interest in Northern Ireland and be supportive of the efforts of the Irish caucus group. I recall Senator Kennedy saying that at a meeting now, the privilege of attending in Washington one time. So I think it's always important recollections that we recall the role of those people and the inspiration that they gave as well. David, you mentioned, I think you referred to the unique capacity of George Mitchell, and again, it's very important that he was there in that particular role. Rory, you mentioned about Mr Trimble, and he was constantly facing Ulster Unionist Council meetings, and we'll recall on a Saturday morning very regularly that Unionist Council met, and the commentary on BBC and UTV would be, would the delegates from Fermanagh South to Rome turn up and such numbers? It was basically non-elected people who were calling the shots that time within the Unionist party, people not elected to public office. And do you think in reflection now, did Mr Trimble and his colleagues at leadership within the party, did they do enough to prepare the ground for change among their party membership? It's obvious that other parties had prepared very well. Now, one other thing, I recall some of the loyalist parties stating they hadn't confidence in the main Unionist parties. And at times, they sought the help of the Irish government at political and official level in dealing with some of the issues that they saw as of huge importance to them. Just with regard to preparing again, I mentioned last week in the discussion that we had with Tim, I remember when Bertie Hurton came to a group of us within the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party, and we had probably a hundred Iraqis members at that time, probably around 80 TDs, more, probably well over 20 senators. And I remember him meeting a group of us particularly who were from the northern half of the country, if you want to call it that, and telling us that articles two and three were going to be changed. We didn't expect that to be coming, so we didn't, to be quite honest. And we had always outlined the value and the importance of articles two and three. But he, along with Martin Manser, the then Attorney General David Burden, I remember them, and I think it was a 7 a.m. meeting in Ballyconnell, telling quite a large number of us, the Rocklist members, basically what was the prize on offer if we were willing to go along with what he was proposing to do. But the groundwork was prepared, because initially we were taken aback that this was being suggested, but he had won the argument without any opposition within the party whatsoever. And again, Rory, you mentioned about north-south structures dominated interaction. But in one way I'm glad they did, because I think colleagues here on this committee will be tired of me referring to it, the evolution and the success of the all-Ireland economy. That has happened without us talking about it, really. Because the right atmosphere was created through the new political structures and the new relationships, north-south and east-west, that emerged from the Good Friday Agreement. And we have seen a huge development in the north-south all-Ireland economy in a huge way. Thankfully, the constituencies let my own benefit from that hugely, as do constituencies all over the country. So from that point of view, in reviewing the north's Good Friday Agreement, we often leave out some of the areas that are exceptionally successful that we take for granted. We pocket them and move on to the next area of complaint. And I think we should always bear in mind what the success stories are as well. Just with regard, I think you were pretty hard on yourselves, Rory, in regard to maybe some ends could have been tied up better in negotiations. But I know that both of you have had, apart from your work at home in negotiating the Good Friday Agreement, but you have had a huge and extensive experience at the most senior level internationally, particularly within the European Union. And you know if there is not a deadline, people have been negotiating forever. So the deal that is agreed with everything tied up, I do not think that happens that often, because you have been involved in European Union treaties and different referenda and all of that. So it is very hard to tie up. So from that point of view, I think it is very understandable that there will be some areas left very vague. You also mentioned about in the context of the studies done by the University of London in regard to the constitution position vis-à-vis the provision in the Good Friday Agreement about the Secretary of State calling a referendum. I think it was, is it a Tain Tanam, was she one of the Trinity? She was one of the. Yeah, they were with us here at committee. And I think, I think, again, you mentioned, I think that they, that they come down on the side of that you couldn't be too prescriptive in it. That's right. And that's what that's from, from recollection. So we could, we could well understand that. But if we were talking about border Poland, I passionately want to see United Ireland, but I think you have to, you have to do the groundwork. And I think if, if a border pole referendum or border pole is called and there's not the right spirit, the right partnership between both governments happening at the time, then we'd have the wrong outcome. It's my belief. And that's the last thing we want to see. We know what Mr Cameron did with his Brexit referendum. He asked the question, but didn't know the answer. But he didn't get the answer he expected to get. So again, it was a case of lack of preparation, looking on as an outsider in at the British side. So I think in, in regard to a border pole, if there's not that spirit existing at the time between both islands, between both, between north, east, west, then we would be having it in the wrong atmosphere. So we would, and I sincerely hope that we'd be able to have a border pole and a successful one. But I believe there's a lot of work to be done in the meantime. People throw out this thing about a citizens assembly. The shared island is having a series of dialogues where they're bringing in people who are interested in the environment, people who are interested in business, people interested in sport. And that's bringing in far greater canvassing opinion far more extensively than choosing at random 99 people or whatever it is to negotiate and have dialogue on all issues. So I think there's huge merit in regard to the shared island dialogue that's happening in so many areas of our everyday activity. And you also mentioned the Royal Irish Academy. I know the Department of Taoiseach has commissioned as a DSRI, the NESC, all of that. I think the best, most extensive analysis of our education system in North and South was completed recently. And I think it's in all of those areas that we should be bringing together the necessary raw material and that can pinpoint the issues that we need to address. And again, David, you mentioned about the potential of the agreement not being reached. I agree 100% with you, and I think Michelle mentioned that as well. But you take areas where there should have been, in the meantime, much more cooperation in North and South based with the whole area of health and education. Now, some of it's happening, but it's not in a formal structure. So it's not, you take the area of higher education. There is collaboration between all the colleges, North and South, and our state over the years has probably put more financial resources into those joint projects. between North and South than would have come from the Northern Ireland Exchequer or the British Exchequer. And we need to continue to build that. We've had good developments in regard to health, again, areas where there can be more. But I think formal structures would drive on that greater intensive cooperation. You mentioned with the IDA having their concerns or being protective of our image. I can understand that. Well, I suggested in some dull debate about that Enterprise Ireland should be marketing Ireland from the point of view of the work that they do in an all-Ireland context. I got a fairly severe blast back from the former First Minister Arlene Foster, so I did. So that put pay into that fairly quickly. But I think we should, in regard to implementing the agreement in full, there are so many gains that could be got there. There are issues that haven't been addressed, but there are issues that haven't been addressed that devolve matters to Stormont as well as issues that fall within the remit of both governments. So I think implementing the agreement, I think it's absolutely critical, so it is. But I was, you know, talking to some of your present colleagues or your colleagues in the Department of Foreign Affairs nowadays, unfortunately there's not a good relationship at the minute. Irish-British, there's difficulties there. And unfortunately the British Government have gone off and announced taking a unilateral approach to some things where there are already structures in place to deal with legacy issues. And legacy is an issue that has to be dealt with, but what the British Government have come up with proposals now that are deplorable and reprehensible. You'd associate them with some tin pot administration in Central America somewhere rather than within a parliamentary democracy in Western Europe. And it has to be a serious concern and worry for families of victims, for victims themselves, and for many of the very good advocacy groups who have worked on behalf of victims over the years. So again, a sincere thanks for your contributions.