Brendan Smith: Opposes Amnesty for Murderers in Legacy Debate

Taoiseach, I presume that in all meetings with members of the British government or with the Northern Ireland executive that legacy issues are discussed and I think that a message needs to be clearly and repeatedly given to the British government that they are proposing in regard to introducing an amnesty for murderers, be they of state members of the state forces or members of paramilitary organisations, some who masqueraded as Republicans and others who masqueraded as loyalists, that under no circumstances should such persons be given an amnesty. for committing heinous crimes and in many instances committing murderers as well. It is very important that that message is repeated to the British government. Taoiseach, as you know, we are approaching the half century since some of those crimes were carried out. Next December, in Belturbo County, when marked the 50th anniversary of the murder of two young teenagers by a bomb that was brought across from County Fermanagh, nobody has ever been brought to justice. In my own constituency, in two years time, it will mark the desperate atrocities that happened in Dublin and Monaghan in May 1974. Still nobody has been brought to justice. We have a complete lack of recognition by the British government over the years in relation to the need to give full cooperation and full and thorough investigations into those desperate atrocities. Not alone have people campaigned for decades to get the truth, but they want to see the truth established. We all know that as every day goes by, it is going to be more difficult. A particular emphasis needs to be put on the need to get progress in regard to legacy issues. Thank you. In relation to Deputy Smith's point and others have related to this, there is no question of the Irish government in any shape or form supporting an amnesty. We do not agree with the British government's proposals in respect of legacy. We believe they are wrong because they would give everybody who has committed murder, whether they are state forces or parlor militaries or whoever, an amnesty and that would be totally unacceptable. It would be a betrayal of the victims of all violence. I take on board what the Deputy has said in terms of the 50th anniversary coming up in terms of Peltorbit and other attacks in Dublin and Monaghan. I accept the point that you are making that there is no sense yet for a lot of people, a lot of victims of closure or answers in terms of who did what. And when I mentioned Deputy Tobin raised the issue and we met with the victims of the Ganan Gang, I accept the point that there is an extra onus on the state, but that does not excuse what happened on Bloody Friday or in Kings Mills. I was watching Reeling in the Ears there the week before last, I think, and I think it was 1974. It was shocking, you know, the Birmingham bombs again, the Guildford 4. No one has ever been, the line underneath, no one has ever been brought to justice or in respect of who committed that atrocity. And for the victims of that atrocity to this day, that hurts. And I think we need to acknowledge that too in respect of what happened in a whole range of situations in those very dark years. And many, many people feel that they are being forgotten about or the loss of their loved ones has been completely forgotten about. And there is not balance in terms of how we approach that. And I believe that the British government has dragged its feet too long on legacy, in my view. Ten years ago, agreement had been reached between the two governments. I would finally say that we believe that British soldiers should be brought to justice in terms of atrocities like Bloody Sunday and Barrymore Free and others. But all those who were guilty. And that collusion, I said it earlier, you know, state forces were involved with all paramilitaries. And Operation Canova is revealing a lot too, apparently. I'm just reading generally what I'm reading in various reports and media and so on like that, and in terms of the operation of intelligence operatives in the north during a prolonged period of time. It seems to me that people most who don't want any, who don't want closure or don't want don't want the light shone on this are all those who were engaged in the killing. It's almost a kind of unspoken. And I'm saying this, you know, this is a sense I get because I've been a long time dealing with legacy. I can go back to Eames and Bradley. And I was skeptical then that those who pulled the triggers and planted the bombs would ever come forward and tell an unvarnished truth about what happened. And it hasn't happened. They haven't come forward. And the result is a lot of families out there who have never got answers as to why their loved ones were killed. And I think that's an issue. But in any event, we're all agreed in this house, we're against the legacy proposals and against the idea of an amnesty. And there needs to be clarity and transparency brought to what happened. Thank you. Thank you.