Victor Boyhan: No confidence in Talta Aaron; calls for review

Thank you. Firstly, I want to thank you, Minister, and congratulations on your appointment. We are familiar. We worked well in agriculture for a number of years. So, Minister, firstly, I want to thank you for coming here. Yesterday evening at four o'clock, I received a letter from the Department to say, good afternoon, Senator. Unfortunately, none of the Ministers from the Department of Housing Planning and Local Government are available to take your commencement matter tomorrow, the 26th. However, Minister Maconlough has kindly agreed to take a response. Now, you are very welcome and I want to thank you. But I want to put a marker down here as we start in the Senate again. We rarely get an opportunity to engage with a Minister. So, these commencement matters are critically important to our constructive parliamentary dialogue. And I would ask for the Department of Listening in here again, I would ask them to make some effort to have some Minister from their Department to come in. Because I am now going to set out a few concerns about Talta Aaron, and I do not really expect you, Minister, to know the final detail of what I might be saying. Indeed, I did not know what I was going to say yesterday. Hence, an hour ago I changed my contribution here. So, therefore, any Minister to come in here and be expected to read some sort of anticipated response is quite frankly irrelevant and is a disservice both to the Department, the Minister and the elected member. I just want to make that point and I hope it would be taken on board. Minister, you will be very familiar with Talta Aaron. It is the State Agency in Ireland responsible for the property registration, the property valuation and the National Mapping Service. It was established on the 1st of March 2023 and indeed, I was centrally involved in the pre-legitative scrutiny of all of those matters as part of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing and Local Government and we dealt with this and it is a critical issue. Of course, Talta Aaron has the responsibility in terms of property registration authority. It was and saw the merger of the property registration authority itself and the Valuation Office and the Ordnance Survey Ireland. So, it is very, very critical in terms of the registration of farmlands, agriculture, commercial properties. We talk about government policy, about the town first approach. I was in Waterford yesterday and I was hearing stories of no one could find out who owns the property and properties in question that the local authority were involved with. So, it affects farmland, farm buildings, commercial properties and we really have to have a coordinated response in relation to the work of Talta Aaron. On Saturday there was an article published in the Irish Times that raised a number of concerns in relation to Talta Aaron and I quote just some of them. Talta Aaron has been a source of growing frustration for solicitors involved in the conveyancing for their clients, a Law Society Committee has said. Despite meetings between the registry and the conveyancing committees of the solicitor's representative body, there has only been limited progress in having criticisms addressed, the committee has said. The committee has been forthright in bringing attention to the land registration body and the difficulties and the changes that they are creating. There is a wide gulf between the two parties and it needs to be addressed. So, Minister, there are critical changes and I just want to touch on some of them. We need a root and branch review immediately of Talta Aaron. That is my ask here today. What is the issue? Do they have sufficient resources? Have they the capabilities and the skills for the IT resources and training? Have they initiated or engaged or spent at great cost in an IT system that is not fully operational? These are very pertinent questions in these days when we are talking about accountability and transparency and value for money. We need confidence that Talta Aaron to provide an authoritative land and property database in a timely manner. It is not happening. Have they developed the appropriate and enhanced database systems that are required for this task? We want efficiency in relation to digital first and we want to look at the Taltshire Board's statement of strategy. Is it being implemented? Have the Board the confidence in Talta Aaron to do its job? There are the issues around local government and the town centre approach. So, in essence, Minister, I have no confidence in Talta Aaron. Many people do not have. Many solicitors are telling me that clients are coming in threatening to complain about them because of issues they feel they are not doing for them when, in effect, the book stops with Talta Aaron because of the way they are not in a timely manner dealing with issues. I finish on this, Minister. There are farm sales falling because of inefficiencies in Talta Aaron. There are pubs and commercial buildings in Ireland falling because of Talta Aaron. It is about the timely delivery of their mandate and it needs to change. Therefore, I am asking for a review and I will be interested to hear what you have to say. Go raibh mawgat. Senator Boyan. Thanks for raising this, Senator Boyan. First of all, just to congratulate yourself on your re-election. A very fine vote on Senator Conway as well. Welcome to the Shannon Centre and likewise to Senator Byrne, her election and of course Cahirluk to yourself on your election as Cahirluk, a great honour again and best wishes with your term of office as well. In relation to the commencement matter you have raised today, Senator Boyan, at the outset, I will certainly relay back first of all your opening comments in relation to your absolute understandable preference to have a Minister from the Department here. Talta Aaron itself is an independent government agency under the aegis of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, as you know. As you outlined, it provides a property registration system as well as a property evaluation service and also national mapping and surveying infrastructure for the State. Under Section 86 of the Talta Aaron Act of 2022, which I know you were involved in the legislative scrutiny of, Talta Aaron is independent in the performance of its functions. As such, the Minister does not have a role in the operational matters relating to its function. However, it is really important that we see it carrying out its functions in a very efficient manner and serving well the purpose for which it was set up under law by the State and by which it is funded by the State to do as well. The continued increase in applications received for registration by Talta Aaron year in year and challenges in recruitment for some time now have unfortunately contributed to an accumulation of applications for registration. To address this, Talta Aaron have embarked on a targeted recruitment campaign where a significant number of new staff have now been onboarded which, when fully trained, will allow Talta Aaron to reduce waiting times for registration services. Talta Aaron have advised me that improvements have been made to date in throughput times, particularly in relation to cases that do not require mapping. The Department is confident that as the full complement of staff are successfully onboarded, it will be in a position to reduce waiting times across all application types. Outside of recruitment, every effort is being made by Talta Aaron to reduce application processing times, including implementation of the following efficiency driving measures. Revised procedures for more efficient handling of the large volume of applications, which are large, that are not in order to proceed to registration. Also, the targeted approach to reduce the age profile of applications pending registration. Also, revised internal processes aimed at reducing the volume of applications on hand, which are not in order to proceed and remain under query. And finally, also an organisation-wide focus on reducing processing times with business process improvements now implemented across the organisation. Talta Aaron also continues to promote his digital services and uptake of e-registration services, where paperless application types are available to legal practitioners and financial institutions, which will help to reduce processing times for all service users. It is understood from Talta Aaron that where an application is lodged fully in order for registration, the application will be registered without any long delay. Applications involving transfer of registered land, where no change to the registry map is required, are in the main process within 15 working days. Processing times for transfers which do require a change to the map and those requiring forced registration of property are improving. Lodging parties may, of course, contact Talta Aaron in relation to specific cases at their email address at info.talta.ie and also there is further information in relation to specific cases available and obtainable by Oireachtas members by contacting the dedicated email address as well, which is in place in respect to Talta Aaron at oireachtas.talta.ie. Thank you very much for your overview there. I suppose in summary, it is not working. Talta Aaron is not delivering. People who want property transactions, be the agricultural land, farms, pubs, commercial buildings, towns, local authorities are having difficulties with Talta Aaron. It is simply, as I can see it, not fit for purpose at this time. To come along after being established and now talk about a recruitment drive. So they acknowledge they need a recruitment drive. They need training. We need to look at our IT systems. I am putting a marker here down today that I am this very day going to draft a number of parliamentary PQs and I am going to submit them to colleagues that I work closely with in the Dáil. And every week for the next five weeks there are going to be PQs put through Dáil Aaron to draw out what are the issues of concern within this organisation. I finish on this, that the Talta Aaron told the Solicitors Committee of the Law Society, it is not an advisory body, cannot devote resources to check every application for errors and tends to devote available staff to processing applications that are in order according to the committee. Quite frankly, they have more than that. They have a responsibility. If there are failings in the legislation that we put through these houses, we need to look at that again. But I want to send out a clear message. I believe it is not fit for purpose. I will today draft a number of parliamentary questions to submit to my colleagues in Dáil Aaron and I am going to keep on this case because it is not doing what it should be doing. Thank you. Minister. Senator Boyan, as I outlined in my earlier contribution, there has been an increase in applications received for registration by a Tal chair year-in-year and also then combined with the challenges in recruitment for some time now that has unfortunately contributed to an accumulation of applications for registration. I have outlined in my previous response the steps the Tal chair-in-year have taken in relation to recruitment and also then in relation to outside of recruitment, a business process, steps they have taken in relation to reducing application processing times and including trying to make it more efficient. So, listen, thank you for raising it. I think we will all agree that it is important that this service is provided in a timely fashion and that it is done in a way that serves the public well and certainly I will ensure that the Department of Housing continue to engage, are fully updated in relation to the engagement here today and continue to engage with the Tal chair-in-year as well in relation to the issues you have raised today with the objective of making sure the public are well served in relation to the service that Tal chair-in-year and is tasked with providing all the legislation.