Sharon Keogan urges law change to 'child sex abuse material'

Yes, thank you. Amendment 1. Yeah. So I rise today to support the intent behind this bill and to speak plainly about why it matters, not just in legal terms, but in human ones. First, I welcome the decision to replace the term child pornography with child sex abuse material. This is not a cosmetic change. It is a moral correction. These are not images. They are evidence of crimes. They are not pornography. They are abuse. And the language we use must reflect that truth. Survivors deserve legislation that names the harm for what it is. But words alone are not enough. Section 9 deals with the legal continuity. And while I understand the need to preserve prosecutions under the own terminology, I would ask the Minister, how will this be communicated to the judiciary, to the legal profession, and to those working on the front lines of justice? We cannot afford confusion in our courts. Guidance must be clear and must be issued promptly. Section 12 gives a three-month lead-in for training. That's welcome. And I want to know what will that training be? Will it be trauma-informed? Will the prosecutors and judges be trained, not just in the terminology, but in the implications for evidence handling and victim support? Because if we are serious about protecting children, then we must be serious about how we train those charges with delivering justice. I am glad for the consideration and maturity this Bill has shown in focusing not only on the language change, but also in ensuring that such a change will be enacted and made real. I can commend the careful thought, time and consideration that's been given to ensuring that the terminology change won't lead to any potential complications in ongoing legal cases and prosecutions. I also note the Bill's alignment with the international obligations, particularly the Lanzarote Convention and the EU Directive. That's important. So I want to commend Senators Flynn, Higgins and Ruan and Black for their amendment to expand the long title. It adds clarity, it adds transparency and it helps the public understand what this Bill is really about and I fully support it. Finally, I want to say, while this Bill may be technical, it impacts, it is deeply human. It reframes how we speak about crimes against children. It reframes how we prosecute them. And it must be accompanied by renewed commitment to victim-centred justice, one that puts survivors first and not systems. So thank you and thank you, Deputy Mayor. Mayor Magos, Shandor, any other Senators like to speak? Minister, would you like to respond? Thanks again. So just to... Apologies, Minister, just before you come in, could I welcome the group from Conrangers to the gallery? Hope you enjoy your visit here today. Thank you. Minister Colin, sorry. Thank you. Apologies. Sorry, just bear with me now a minute. Thanks, Chair and Senator. Just to say that the amendment is not opposed, however, you are probably aware at this stage that the government approach to the Bill has changed and that the Bill itself is now being opposed. And I just want to expand a little bit on that to say that we are pleased to have the opportunity to speak about the private member's bill, which is sponsored by Senators Flynn, Black, Higgins and Ruan. And I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the hard work and sustained effort that the Senators have put into getting this bill to report stage and for engaging with us on the issues. This work was reflected in the amendments made at committee stage in June. When the bill was introduced in February of 2022, it was clear that the objective of updating the language in the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act of 1998 was worth pursuing. It is important that the language we use in legislation reflects the seriousness of the matters that it addresses, particularly when it relates to serious offences against the most vulnerable people in our society. The phrase child pornography was considered appropriate in 1998 to address the need to effectively criminalise sexual imagery of children. It is now widely recognised that this term does not accurately convey the true nature of the harm to victims. Any material that would meet the definition of child pornography in the 1998 Act is evidence of the sexual abuse of a child and is appropriate that the Act should be amended to reflect this. The internationally accepted best practice termed today is, and I quote, child sexual abuse material. The Child Trafficking and Child Sexual Exploitation Material Bill 2022 seeks to bring the language used in legislation into line with our modern understanding of the true horror of child sexual abuse material and the damage caused to young lives by those who commit offences of this nature. As you will be aware by now, the Government has decided to oppose the Bill at report stage. This is a change to the previous position on the Bill. However, the Government has recently published new legislation that will deal with this in a more targeted way and which does not give rise to the concerns outlined during the debates here in the Shannon. During the second stage debate, the then Minister James Brown conveyed the Government's decision not to oppose the Bill. We took the same position again at Committee stage in June this year as the aims of the Bill are in line with Government policy and they would clearly be of benefit if they could be achieved. However, as we set out at the time, there are a number of problems with the proposals in the Bill. While these were generally not taught to be insurmountable, they represent significant legal risks. The proposed amendments would have a very broad reach across the Statute Book and they would involve a large amount of complex and very detailed drafting work in order to deliver on the objective of removing and replacing every single reference to child pornography in every piece of legislation in force. The new Government legislation takes a different approach. Part 5 of the General Scheme of the Criminal Law, Sexual Offences, Domestic Violence and International Instruments Bill of 2025 will delete the terms child pornography and pornographic performance throughout the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act of 1998 and replace them with quote, child sexual abuse material and quote, child sexual abuse performance respectively. References elsewhere in Statute will not be replaced. Instead, the legislation will provide for references in any enactment, legal proceedings or other documents to child pornography to be construed as references to child sexual abuse material. This will ensure that appropriate language is used to describe these offences in legal proceedings and elsewhere. It also means that all new legislation related to this topic in future will use the new language so the old wording will disappear from the Statute Book as changes are made over time. This will allow for a more considered approach to the impact of targeted changes in more clearly defined contexts. For example, if the provisions for an offence are being amended. While the amendments made at committee stage have improved the bill while the amendments made at committee stage have improved the bill it would still require very substantial effort to get it to the point where it could be implemented. It will be no easy task to find and replace all of the references while still ensuring that the legal effect of provisions for offences and post-conviction reporting requirements are not undermined. Any reference would need to be separately evaluated to see what the impact of making the change would be and how best to mitigate it. A key risk here is that some references would be missed or that the impact of the changes might not be fully anticipated. This is a risk with any amendments to legislation but the scale of the task magnifies the risk. The proposed amendments to long and short titles of legislation carry a risk to the legal certainty that is required in cross-references between enactments. This leads to a potential impact on the safety of prosecutions and the enforceability of post-conviction obligations for example the sex offenders register. When considering the approach to any new legislation that will amend the provisions for criminal offences it is vital to ensure that we maintain the legislative coherence necessary for the offences to simultaneously remain fully enforceable sufficiently fair to victims of crime and fully in line with the requirements of the Constitution. The underlying aim behind the bill is clearly worthwhile. The language that we use in legislation affects our perceptions of the impact of offences on victims and it influences how we respond. The government legislation will replace the outdated language in the 1998 Act so that it reflects the true nature of the harm done to victims by offenders who make, possess and distribute child sexual abuse. material. The provisions of the current wording to be construed as child sexual abuse material will ensure that it is called out for what it is and for the harm it causes in legal documents and in court proceedings. I am therefore satisfied that the approach being adopted in the government legislation is the most appropriate way to bring the language in legislation for child sexual abuse material into line with best practice. Having said that I want to commend the Senators today for introducing the bill in 2022 and for keeping the issue alive since then. This bill initiated a debate on a legislative change that was very much needed and the debates that took place in this House around it have led to the introduction of the current government proposal. So I want to finish my intervention today by assuring you that your hard work in this bill is acknowledged and is duly appreciated. Thank you. Thank you.