Richard Boyd Barrett: Urges Wealth Taxes and Economic Diversification

Yeah, Minister, look, Donald Trump is on a wrecking mission. That's obvious. Although I would just caution against, if you like, allowing them to bully us. The reason they have to make America great again is because the American economy has declined massively. They used to have 40% of GDP, then it went down to 20 by 2014, and it's now down to 15. The American empire is in decline, and Donald Trump personifies that decline, and he's trying to reassert global hegemony by bullying people, and we shouldn't be bullied. And most of the multinationals that are here are here because they make a lot of money, a lot of money, and they're not going to run away and leave those profits behind. Having said that, the key thing is we have to diversify our economy. We are too vulnerable, not just to Americans, to a small number of flipping oligarchs. I don't care what country they're from, a tiny number of the Elon Musks of this world, and their equivalent in multinationals. That's the problem. So we need to diversify our economy, and we need to tax these people more. You say expand the tax base by carbon taxes. I say wealth taxes, financial transaction taxes, taxes on wealth and capital, so these people don't control our faith. There's an obvious contradiction in what you're saying, because of course there is. Because on one hand what you're saying, Deputy, is that, and it's great to hear you make the case with the resilience of foreign direct investment, which is a new departure for you, which I welcome. But on one hand what you were saying, on one hand what you were saying is, this employment has a value, there's lots of it here in Ireland, and then you're making the case then that we should tax it even more, and apply wealth taxes to it. How is that going to help with the challenges that we have regarding the safety of our public finances, and keeping jobs in Ireland? How will it help with doing that if we're going to tax them more and more? Of course we need to diversify our economy. Of course we need to ensure that we have more sources of growth in our jobs market. But it should be noted that as we are at the moment, we've never had more people at work in Ireland. We have public finances that are in surplus. And these are all due to the fact that we have a variety of different employers in our country, all of whom are contributing to the creation of jobs and to our tax revenues. No, you see, I've always argued that multinational capital is not quite as mobile as you think. They make big investments, they don't just run off and leave them overnight. You's have argued, you have to get down on your knees and offer them zero rate taxes, you know, 12.5% in theory. In reality, you know, less than 1% as we know for Apple. Effective rate, I'd say, of about 5% in actuality across the board for multinationals. But the truth is they're making a lot of profits here. Far more than anywhere else. And they need access to the European market. And, by and large, they want to be in English-speaking countries, right? And they need a skilled workforce. And that's something you should be thinking about, right? Because we're falling down in that area. Our third-level institutions are falling down the international league tables. We're putting fees in the way of people getting MA's and doctorates and so on. And that's the kind of investment we need to make ourselves more resilient against the behaviour of the Elon Musk and the Donald Trumps of this world. So, I agree with what Deputy Nash said, that we need to continue with our efforts to diversify our economy, to support employers of all different shapes and sizes. Thank you for recognising the work of Enterprise Ireland with regard to that, that really do exceptional work. And I believe the strength of our food sector, the growing strength of our energy sector within our economy are all examples of how we can strengthen the diversity of employment, the diversity of where we can generate economic growth in the future. And that remains really the key mission of this government in order to create the money and resources that we need to invest back in a better society and to deal with all of the issues that the House is well aware of. Deputy Boyd Barrett, you know I have great respect for you as an individual. While I disagree with many of your views, I've always admired their consistency. I have to say in honesty to you, the points that you are making here today, at best sound naive if not quite dangerous, given the risks that we are confronting here today. For you to be suggesting at the moment, given the difficulties that we clearly face, as we have answered questions on earlier on today, in the implementation of a current global tax deal, that there is benefit in Ireland, jobs in Ireland, or competitiveness in Ireland that can be secured, by going beyond that, by taxing more, by bringing in new forms of tax, shows no understanding of what it takes to create a job here in Ireland and keep it here in Ireland. And the path that you are advocating there is one that would lead to a weaker and more vulnerable economy, and is a course of action that I am certainly not going to follow. Deputy Boyd Barrett, Thanks Minister.