Richard Boyd Barrett on deportation cruelty and inner-city solutions

I want to draw your attention to the human consequences of the government bending to these far-right groups who are screaming for mass deportations. Bilal Butt has been here for 19 years. For the last 15 years, as long as he was allowed, he has been working and paying tax. I know him personally, he is a lovely man. He is married, he has got two kids, one daughter is ten, she has lived here all her life. And there is another child, three months, lived here all her life. Recently he was incarcerated for 50 days in prison, subject to a deportation order. He has a heart condition, he has a number of stints, his wife is absolutely beside herself with fear he is going to have a heart attack. What exactly? His employer, by the way, is very supportive, was even supporting him while he was in prison, but cannot re-employ him, obviously, because he is subject to a deportation order. What is the good, or where is the humanity, in exporting this man, separating him from his children, imposing that level of stress, when he has been contributing, paying tax, he is a decent human being, it is absolutely cruel. And I would ask you to look into this. I have written to the Department of Justice, the Minister for Justice about it, it is cruelty. Deputy Conor D. McGinnis. From quite a number of deputies. I think Deputy Catherine Arda was first into the fray. And I actually would agree with the Deputy and I would talk to Mr. Justice and other ministers as well in respect of a dedicated safe inner city initiative because some of the ideas we have outlined were implemented in the north-easter inner city at the time of the Kinnan-Hutch feud, and the impact on children in particular was very severe. So a whole series of measures were taken via multidisciplinary agencies, Garde, education, early childhood years, which had proven to be quite effective. And particularly, like the impact of the drug issue, and particularly young people being lowered away from education to get into the world of distributing drugs, getting sort of ready-made cash, which sounds attractive, but of course ruins their life for the long term. I believe we are working at reincarnating, if you like, the rapid programme that we had in the previous year, which basically prioritised areas in terms of allocations for sporting facilities. So under the sports grants, for example, certain areas would get prioritisation in terms of sports facilities, and clubs and societies in such areas would get that prioritisation. And likewise through education and targeted measures, and sometimes combining sport with education to provide first-class facilities in such locations. I fully take on board what you are saying about the absence of sporting facilities in the south east in the city. When I was Minister for Defence, I was anxious to make the pitch there that the Army had available to the GA club initially there, who had been using it for quite some time. I am actually genuinely shocked at the lack of provision in Dublin city council area, and in Dublin more generally, in terms of sports facilities. Around the country, it is not uncommon that clubs get 100-year leases, or sometimes councils will dispose land to clubs and various codes of sport, with a view to affirming the importance of development of sport. I have noticed on my travels around Dublin in particular, there seems to be a lot of restrictive approaches to allowing clubs to fully develop facilities in their area. I think that is an issue we do have to take up with the councils in Dublin, and the government has to take a lead in that respect. In particular, in your particular area, there is a real crisis. Again, whether we can, I will have to look at it in more detail, whether you can combine some school facilities, try and have them for community use as well, which does happen in some areas. I think there is very strong merit in what you are saying, and I will talk to other ministers in terms of that issue. Deputy Connolly raised a very serious and grave issue, and he met with Exchange House Ireland recently in terms of travellers, Ireland, and the high rate of suicide among travellers. I would have met with Traveller Visibility Group in Cork some years ago, to be frank, but up on the wall they had portraits of so many young travellers who had lost their life to suicide. And there was a very specific issue here that does demand a specific response from our health services. And I will be meeting again with traveller organisations in respect of this, but it is a very worrying development. The degree to which any young travellers at a certain age, at a certain level, feel othered or feel outside of society, on the margins, and their self-esteem, deterioration, and so on, which leads to mental health issues and ultimately to the horror of suicide itself. The figures you have given there are shocking in terms of the rate of suicide among travellers compared to the wider population. So I will talk to the ministers involved again in respect of that. Deputy Bradbison raised the issue in terms of Dublin North, sorry, in terms of the young people again, and drugs, and drug distribution, and scooters and so on. I will check with the Minister for Justice in terms of the Criminal Justice Engagement of Children Act, I think he said that actually came from former Deputy John Corden, who initiated that back along some years back from the opposition benches, it eventually came through and was passed, but your point now is to what degree is it being enforced, and is it having teeth, and is it impacting? This is where adults were grooming young people for a life of crime, and where we would target those adults and punish them accordingly in terms of sentencing and the criminal justice system. But there is a common thread through many of the questions in terms of drug trafficking and the use of young people in drug trafficking, and that is something that we do have to work extremely hard to deal with, but also reduce significantly. Deputy O'Sullivan raised the issue in Cork prison, and yes, it is overcrowded, the inspector has said that, and the Minister for Justice has received sanctions from the Cabinet to do an extension, which has a mixed reception, but I think there is no doubt the current numbers are not tenable, and it is an issue of safety, and the Minister has got sanctions to progress that. I will talk to the Minister in terms of where the timelines in respect of that, but there certainly is a huge issue, not just in Cork prison, but across the prison system. That again reflects the increase in numbers coming through our courts for serious offences, and the Minister is looking at all avenues in terms of how to deal with that overcrowding issue, and he has already received sanctions in terms of capital investment, in terms of extensions, and for Cork prison in particular. Deputy Rory Murakoo, on the chaos in communities that occurs because of drug trafficking and the impact of drug crime in areas, you are correct in saying it needs multi-agency interventions, and I would agree 100% on that, and I think I have dealt with some of the answers in respect of Deputy Arda and Deputy Brabazon in that respect. Deputy Coppinger raised the issue of violent extremist group emerging in terms of Gardaí investigation. I commend Gardaí in the first instance for the work that they are doing here. There is no doubt that there is an increase in far-right violent activity, threatening activity. I believe we should allow the investigation to conclude, and we have to allow the criminal justice system to take its course. We don't want to prejudice the outcome of any criminal justice processes. This may end up in the courts. I am conscious of that, but it is a very, very worrying development, an alarming development. I would take issue, Deputy, with you saying that politicians are somehow legitimising that. I think that is a step too far in your commentary, and it is very unfair to politicians, irrespective of people's views. I think that should be withdrawn, because there is no excuse for an armed group getting established. We can't blame politicians for people who take it upon themselves to set up an armed group, to procure weapons and bombs. I think that is wrong to blame politicians for that, and so I would just simply make that point. That said, the campaign of far-right, in certain aspects, terror is a worry. There is no doubt about that. I mean, threats to politicians have increased. Politicians have been threatened by people in that spectrum. So we have to be very, very careful in terms of how we, yeah, I take your point in terms of care around language, and how we deal with the migration issue, because migration is a very, very broad church. Migration has been good for the country. Many, many people have come to this country to work, to live, to rear families, and many are involved in health services, technology companies, life sciences, hospitals, you name it. As has been articulated earlier, many have lived there, their children are growing up here, and their children are facing challenges now, notwithstanding that they are Irish citizens, but they feel because of their ethnic background that they are being targeted by people. That is reprehensible, and we need to be very clear about that and call that out. I have met with young people who have told me their experiences. Coming home from school or being afraid to go into town because of their ethnic backgrounds, and that is a real concern for us as a society. I think it is foreign to the values of our country and our people. The Deputy Tobin raised the issue of the Ukrainian, young Ukrainian killed in Tusla accommodation. Again, Deputy, you have to be careful with the language here, because you then immediately go on and say the Minister has questions answered. There is an issue, you are right, for the international asylum process, where it seems, I have to be careful what I say, on some occasions, adults can present as minors. But it is almost impossible for someone in Tusla, for example, and remember this is not state care now. The alternative here would be the low people roam the streets or the low people beyond the street. So what happened there was an emergency accommodation for unaccompanied minors, insofar as Tusla could ascertain that there were unaccompanied minors. This is a general trend. So there is a worry that in trying to do the right thing, and Tusla in this case is doing the right thing, creating emergency accommodation for unaccompanied minors to try and help. But that is vulnerable to some adults who may, you can imagine, in terms of ascertaining age and so on, if someone is unaccompanied, and I'm not saying this happened in this case yet, because I have to wait the outcome of the case. But it's not fair then to blame Tusla entirely for everything to do with situations like this. I think that's too easy. And it's like you took exception to Deputy Coppinger about the into youth WhatsApp group. You took exception to the comments that were made. But you did the exact same thing in dragging the Minister into it straight away. No, but you did the same thing. You said the Minister has questions answered. The Minister, to be fair, there's policies that certainly the Minister is responsible for. But we have to sometimes also accept that people act in good faith. That's what I'm saying. And we shouldn't rush to judgment against Tusla officials. I don't know, is there? It's drawn to the attention of authorities as an unaccompanied minor. It could be 17, 18, 19, 20. You know, 15, 14. I mean, people who act, I would put it to you, that people acted in good faith here with the best intentions. What happened was horrific. Shocking, what happened to that poor young child. No question about that. All I'm simply saying is the immediate rush to judgment and to attempt to blame, I think, is wrong. Deputy Mark Ward, I will talk to the Minister about Belgari. I think you did raise with the Commissioner, which is hopefully, I think the Commissioner will act on that. And I think you've properly raised the concerns of the community in terms of the need for visibility of Gardie, but also the open drug scenarios that you outlined and articulated. Deputy Quaid, again, I think your language was wrong. You used the phrase Deputy Quaid that I congratulated the Independent Ireland. I didn't congratulate. No, you used the phrase congratulate. I never used that word, congratulate. No, but why do you do that through the Chair? McClifford wrote an article. McClifford wrote an article, but it needs to be informed and evidence-based. I think it's just pejorative language. This attempt to label people is a problem. It's a problem in the House. And the left will condemn the far-right and so on. But you're not even prepared to allow people to have a discussion in the House on these issues. And I think what you're doing is counterproductive. That's all I'd say through the Chair. I think it's counterproductive to shut down debate. I believe debate should be informed. I believe debate should be evidence-based, but you cannot shut it down. And then when we say things like people are, you know, that's wrong, Deputy. I have my values in respect of people in respect of ethnic background. And I just think, that's all I'm saying, I just think it's too much of that going on. The Catherine Day report was based on the premise of 3,500 people coming in through the asylum program on a yearly basis. That went up to 18,000 last year. It's down close to 40% this year. There are issues around the asylum process. No point in saying there isn't. There are. And we have to manage, we have to have a robust, fair procedure. The acceleration of the first phase has happened and is happening and people are getting the first phase of their application. Then they go and appeal and they know the focus is on getting the appeal side done much faster. So we get an outcome. And you know, a significant percentage of those who go through the whole process are judged to be economic migrants as opposed to those seeking refuge in accordance with the acts and so on like that. But if you say that, then you're accused of, you know, but that is the reality. If you examine the figures that come from the Department of Justice and what's happening. But we do have to accelerate it, particularly on the appeals side, after the first phase is done. Deputy Conway Walsh. I will follow that up with the Minister for Justice. Again, these are very complex issues in terms of, or they can be, in terms of the rights of children. And historically, yes, you're correct. I mean, notwithstanding all the legislation we've passed, and the recent constitutional amendment did go to the heart of this, of the prioritisation of the rights of the child, in terms of scenarios where, that you've outlined in terms of coercive control, in terms of violence, domestic violence and so forth. And in my view, the rights of the child have to be prioritised. But sometimes those rights involve having some contact with parents as well. And we all know as deputies, we come across very complex family law cases where issues of access and so on, constantly arise. But I have sympathy with the position you've put, and I will come back to you, and we'll ask the Minister for Justice also to revert to you on that. Yeah, but if you could maybe suggest that you write to the Minister for Justice on that as well, in terms of the British context and what's happening there. Deputy O'Callaghan raised the redress scheme. Again, the Minister has indicated that that is work underway in respect to that. I will talk to the Minister to revert to you in respect of that for the survivors of the Starburst. Fire, a lot of progress was made in a redress scheme for the families and so on. And we are now progressing for the commitments in that regard. Deputy Boyle Barrett, I don't know the individual case for 15 years, seems a long time to be here, and then to be subject to deportation. But again, I'd like to get the background and the details. Yes, please. I'll send a copy to the Minister of Justice. I'll liaise with the Minister and talk to the Minister in respect of it. Deputy Conor McGuinness over-reliance on routine policing again. You haven't seen the Garda and Port Law. The visibility is improving. More and more Garda have been recruited. Numbers that are applying are up significantly. So the issue is not how can we get as many Garda trained as quickly as we possibly can to get out there on the ground and to improve their visibility.