Victor Boyhan presses for housing targets for people with disabilities

I know, Minister, I understand you're here on behalf of Minister Foley, so I want to thank you for doing that. I also understand Minister Foley is tied up with parliamentary business and can't be here. So listen, Minister, I'll sort of be brief. I suppose I'm very conscious that the National Housing Strategy for Disabled People for 2022 to 2027 provides a framework for the delivery of housing for people with all levels of disability. I also understand, of course, that housing is ultimately the responsibility of the Minister for Housing, it is not actually the responsibility of Minister Foley. Where this over dovetails and there's layers of cross responsibility or cross interest is that the Department of Children, Disability and Equality do actually fund the provision of supports for community living in collaboration with the HSE. So there is that crossover and I want to acknowledge the excellent collaboration between the two departments and indeed the two ministers in relation to it. What prompted me to raise this as a commencement matter was that about 10 days ago in the Irish Examiner there was a headline, councillors now have to set housing delivery targets for people with disabilities, and that struck a chord with me. And it talked about in the examiner's article, it talked about Minister Foley clearly, it was based on her statements indeed to her contribution to the Fianna Fáil Ardeish at that time and so it was carried up on those Monday papers. But the article goes on to say game-changing new policy will be aimed at two groups of people who are able to live independently with some supports and people who need a specialised 24-7 wraparound care. And you know, Minister, you've spoken about these areas before and you know the importance of having both. We want people to live independently if at all possible. We recognise that that is impossible for everyone. We recognise the policy of decongregation of institutional settings. We also understand the importance of wraparound services that people that may have limited ability or limited access to support. So there's no one particular course that works ideally for everyone. So there has to be flexibility in the supports and the provisions of people who want to live in the community. We want all of us to enable people to live and play a full and meaningful role within their own communities as much as possible. But we also recognise, as do advocates for disability, with people with disability and people who have a disability, that they want and need and require supports. But the day of emptying out fully residential support systems and not giving the wraparound supports, it hasn't worked. And I'm very familiar with a number, I'm not going to mention them here, a number of charities were embarked on the emptying out of old unsociable institutional buildings, put people in one bedroom units, particularly around the greater Dublin area, and suddenly after weeks, if you've been institutionalised in sessions for a long time and then suddenly no supports. And supports fell away. And people really, the novelty wear off. So I think we've done a lot of learning there. What I also liked about what Minister Foley said, she said for far too long, and I think we'd all agree, disability people have not been a priority for social and affordable housing. She mentioned the role of local authorities and the significance of that, and then mentioned about the targets. And I think unless we measure this, and we set targets for all our local authorities, it's simply not going to happen. So look, I commend, I commend the Minister Foley, particularly for the initiative, but it's a government initiative. We recognise that too many people with disabilities are not being able to play a full and meaningful role in the community in the way that they wish. And the other thing here is, it also ties in with choice. So choice of where they want to live, choice with the level of supports they want. And it's a point of making here again, although it's not part of the commencement matter, far too many people with disability who want to work, can't get work. So there's a bigger picture here. But today our focus is on the housing and the initiative between the collaboration between Minister Foley and Minister James Brown. And of course, to follow all that initiative and support, we must put the money in place. But I'd be very interested to hear what the official response is, Minister. And again, thank you for taking the time to come here this afternoon to deal with this matter. Thanks, Senator. Minister. Thank you very much, Laska Hairlock, and thank you very much, Senator Boyan, for raising this really important issue and giving me the opportunity to respond on behalf of both Minister Foley and I, who are both Ministers in the Department of Children, Disability and Equality. As you've mentioned, the National Housing Strategy for Disabled People provides the framework for delivery of housing for people with all levels of disability. And while the housing response itself falls within the remit of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, our department, the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, as you said, funds the provision of supports for community living, as well as supports for more complex specialist disability residential services, with the service provided either directly by the HSE or on behalf of the HSE by service providers. The overall budget increase from €1.7 billion at the close of 2017 to close to €3.9 billion this year for specialist disability service. And that increase reflects the Programme for Government commitment to improving the lives of people with disabilities, signalling to those with a disability that this Government is committed to making a difference in their lives. Specialist disability services that people with disabilities may need to live in local authority homes include disability residential services, personal assistance and home support. As you said, Senator, that's where the dovetailing that you spoke about comes in. In 2026, €65 million has been allocated to disability residential services, and that's for new developments, and that includes €40 million that will be provided in the region of 199 residential responses, and it will also cover the 152 new residential placements. The remaining €25 million will support in the region of 40 residential packages for children in care with complex needs, the enhancement of existing residential placements, and decongregation, which you mentioned earlier, decongregation transitions, and the under 65s programme. Other key supports that people with disabilities may need to live in local authority homes include, as I said, home support and personal assistance services. The budget this year also provided €5 million to support the delivery of over 100,000 additional home support and 50,000 additional personal assistance hours, and that will enable approximately 7,000 people to receive disability home support services and almost 3,000 adults to receive personal assistance in order to maintain their independence. As you mentioned, Minister Foley and Minister Brown, together with officials, have made significant progress through the implementation structures established under the National Housing Strategy for Disabled People, and that progress is in relation to improving coordination with local authorities and disability service providers at local, at regional, and at national level. This includes establishing the levels of unmet need for specialist disability residential services in each county or local authority area, and this will inform the settings of targets in the local authority housing development action plans for two cohorts of disabled people, those living more independently in the community, as well as those with greater support needs who will receive specialist disability residential services. As you've said yourself, Senator, if we don't have targets in place, it's very hard to motivate people to reach them, and it's also very hard to be able to measure the progress, so I'm a big believer in that, and I welcome that myself. In addition, you may be interested to know that the HSE have new roles established, new housing coordinator roles, and there's new residential planning and review teams, and they are being hired for and will be in place this year to coordinate and to oversee the delivery of new residential placements and to plan for future placements, many of which will be delivered by local authority homes. We know at the moment that this is very much a crisis response, and we're very aware we want to live, we want to move towards a more sustained, planned response. You mentioned in your comments, Senator, around disabled people and work, and I might just mention, if I could, a service I visited yesterday in Selbridge, Dara, who have a fantastic work‑ready programme, and unfortunately the levels of disabled people in our workforce are only about 17% at the moment, and they've translated that 17% to 74% in their service, so there's really positive things happening around the country, and it's important that we shine a light on those also. Thank you. Senator? Thank you, Minister, and I'd ask you to convey my thanks to Minister Norma Foley for the response that you put on the record there. I suppose key to all of this, of course, is the local authority, as you say, housing development action plans, and I don't know where they are, are they just about to start? I think it's pretty new, but I think it would be interesting to keep an eye to that and let's all look at that again, and then of course that key thing about independent living, independent dignity, respect for the individual, to make choices around their needs, their accommodation, et cetera, I think is really important, and key to all of that is that they're placed at the centre and at the heart of our communities and supported in all of that. Clearly the Minister's response here today clearly emphasises the importance of ensuring that we continue to support people with disabilities in living in a meaningful way and fulfilling their lives by their choice, their direction, their chosen pathways, with a person-centred approach across the services and tapping into the multi-community services. And finally, I acknowledge that significant levels of funding will be required to roll out this over a period of time. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow, and I think that's a key ask, and I would ask you maybe yourself, and to take back to the Minister, my desire, and I'm sure everyone's desire, that this be kept on the, kept focused as we run into the budgets, because this area needs resources, this area needs funding, but I want to thank you and I want to thank Minister Foley for that very comprehensive response today. Thank you. Minister. Thank you very much, Senator, and thanks for all that you do to raise these really important issues, which was just to reiterate, this is a priority for this government, and government recognises that there is more to do to improve the lived experience of people with disability, and that is ultimately what this boils down to. You said it in your own contribution, that people are at the heart of this, and that's why we need to ensure that we're doubling down in terms of our effort. The increase in the disability budget for this year, which was 20%, that demonstrates the multiple commitments made in the programme for government in terms of improving the lives of people with disabilities and making a difference, and we need to make sure that that funding translates into improved outcomes and expanded services. I'd just like to reiterate the importance of ensuring that we continue to support people with disabilities to live meaningfully and fulfilling lives with a person-centred approach right across all of our services. The ambition of government is to bring about a step change in services for people with a disability in Ireland, and we're committed to the expansion and the reform of disability services in order to maximise people's independence and help support them to live ordinary lives in ordinary places. The bottom line, Senator, is that this government is aware of the challenges, and they are challenges that present across all regional health areas, and the department is actively engaging with the Department of Housing, with the HSE, to explore new and existing ways of responding to demand while appropriately managing the significant levels of funding provided to residential services.