Brian Stanley: Calls for balanced renewables and stronger rules

Thanks for the, and thanks to the committee for facilitating this. I think it's important, you know, as somebody who's in favour of using a blend of sources for renewable energy, you know, Wind Energy Ireland, they're in regularly here over the last 14 years, 15, 16 years, I've seen them in there a lot. So it's important that, you know, communities like ourselves have been in, you know, and just recognise as well that work that you've done, because, you know, all of you have day jobs, you have families and everything else, and you've had to try and do this research and everything else. So, from where I'm coming from, and, you know, I think that, you know, is there a one fits all answer, is there quick fixes? No, there's not. There's a number of, and I think that, you know, we also have to accept that alternatives, the alternatives may mean, not everybody will be happy with the alternatives, but we do need, we do need energy independence as much as possible to become independent. We will have the interconnector soon with France, the Celtic interconnector, but I would like to see energy being exported through that, if you have a surplus, right, but we're not there at that point. So what I would say to you is that, you know, solar, solar done properly is one that, you know, as a state, we've only started developing it since infancy, you know, we're really behind the curve with that. Anaerobic digestion, it's minuscule, and it's a drum that I hammered hard here as a spokesperson, opposition spokesperson, on climate and energy back between 2016 and 2019 and 20. Anaerobic digestion, we have a huge issue with huge amounts of farm waste, with huge amounts of other waste that can be used for that, we haven't done it. When there's high energy demand in the wintertime, and it's dismissed, which I've raised it in numerous times, hydro, we haven't even considered hydro, and we have more water than anywhere else in Europe. Spain uses hydro, they even catch water that's supplying towns, they actually catch the water supply as it's coming down from a reservoir and have small turbines on them. We have a lot of potential there, again, which forms part of the solution. Offshore wind hasn't happened, and it hasn't happened, let's be honest about it, hasn't happened because it's more expensive, but that's not a reason for not doing it. An onshore is part of the solution, but at this point, if we continue just with using this, it's causing more and more problems, some of which have been outlined here today, and if we try and go from five gigawatts to nine, obviously that's going to accelerate and lead us into further problems. The fact that we don't have regulations, it's a strange one because people complain all the time about how it's been over-regulated here, but on this one, we don't have them. I brought forward bills on it over the last 16 years, or attempted to bring them forward, and the wind turbine bill 2025, that's gone through the first stage of it all, that's there, and it's setting out simple things. I'm not expecting everybody to agree with it, but what I'm trying to do is to prompt action, and if people want to change it, I can. We were promised, the government didn't oppose it, I welcome that, and not being factional about this, but we were told at the time by government that within three months that we would see progress from the data I brought in. I brought it in back a couple of weeks before Christmas. I asked Michael Martin about it recently, and there's nothing there yet. What he did say, and his answer to me on the floor of the Dail was revealing, he said that if we have regulations, we're never going to be able to build enough wind farms. Unsure, of course, is what he's talking about, which is what a lot of us suspect for years, is that's the reason we don't have them. I'm only saying that as, I'm trying to be objective. We do need setback distances. The question's been asked by the previous committee member in relation to the noise. WHO limits, I think people would live with that. That will depend on the size of the turbines and the type of turbines. Location and zoning. Are we going to take away, are we going to kill off local government altogether? There has to be some, and there should be a notice on councillors to zone. It's not good enough for councillors to say, oh, we'll leave that to the minister. We'll zone, but we know the minister will overrule it. The primary responsibility should rest with the local councillors to have a responsibility to do that, but also a responsibility for that to be respected by us here at Dail level and the government level. Visual impact has to be taken into consideration. We can't just have them anywhere because of issues with shelter flicker and noise and setback and infrastructure and visual impact. In short, I think the answer is, and we have an abundance, solar now is more effective given the new technology. We know that from, we're hearing that from householders. Householders told me the other day that charging the car and selling back electricity back into the grid is more than it needs. If that can be done at a small scale like that, it shows that the new solar panels are a lot more effective. So we obviously need to accept the fact that we're going to have to put solar farms in modest scale, wherever they're suitably located. Anaerobic digestion, not everybody wants to be, mightn't like them, but we have huge amounts of farm waste. We know that causes problems of different kind. Here's a source of income for farmers. Hydro, we have more water than anywhere else, particularly at periods when we have high demand for electricity in wintertime. I mean, the winter that just passed, if you're asking for one word under memory of it is the amount of bloody rain that fell and an onshore, I mean, with huge potential offshore to do that. I think that's where we need to go. So what my question to the members is this, you know, if you, and in my attended meetings, different meetings, and myself in the Cahirlip would have attended meetings in Leish, and I attended some in Offaly as well, Deputy Glen Denon, over the years on this, including down in the Munavog and different places on this, the very important causeway down there. But if it's proposed that, you know, if there was a, in general, I'm not asking you to say, would you accept an aerobic digester just in your backyard, right? Or, you know, a thousand acres of solid panels on the hillside, but in general, if that approach was taken, do you believe that the 80 affiliated groups would, you know, that people would accept that we have to accept some pain here, or we have to accept some inconvenience, because, you know, even if you want to, if you want to make, if you want to fry a leg, you have to crack a leg. You know, if you want to make an omelette, you have to crack several of them. You know, that's the question. You know, people would have to accept that. Yeah, look, people are up for anything that is, you know, reasonable within their backyard. They're even up for wind farms if it follows, you know, regulation, and there's regulation there to protect them should they have a problem. And, in itself, wind farms in Rome won't do it because it's an unstable source. Yeah. It's great. It's great. It's a good source of energy. I'm saying to you, sir, that, you know, it will, you know, we need some solar farms. We need a lot of anaerobic digesters because, you know, they have to be done by localized bases. As long as they're regulated and, you know, and they're protected, I see, you know, why would people object to something that is there and is supplying power? But, you know, that, you know, we haven't gone and studied aerobic digesters and how they affect the environment as such, right? So, I can't give you a complete answer, right, in terms of would we support that or not. It's actually good for the environment. Right. Well, I suppose it's a whole energy policy, you know, that's there for us to see. But in general, if you do your land use, right, you know, we get back to the RPS report. If you apply the science, say this is suitable for that and if you say local government is so important and it's been eroded every day, you know, the cool glass judgment in particular, it turns it all back on its head again. But if you can do proper planning, people have faith in the system that's there so that if I have a problem and there's someone complaining of anitis that I can do it. It doesn't take 12 years to a high court case to fix it. That's where the mistrust or, you know, you've lost faith in the system. But if you can have proper planning, you know, land use, proper plan use, landing and proper planning, you know, an energy policy. And at the moment, to me, there's a 9 gigawatt target there that there's another department that says it's not achievable if we use the 2009-19 guidelines. So, we're not energy experts, you know, we're all individuals that have paid jobs. We're here as volunteers today. But to me, that's where you start. Proper energy policy. Just ask one other thing, just a small question maybe. And it's for the committee, it's not for me. But maybe the committee might consider submitting the opening statement, maybe to the Department of the Environment and Energy as well. I just think, you know, I think that's... No problem. You know what, maybe send it to Minister Darragh O'Brien as well. I mean that in a helpful way. Yeah. Thanks for your indulgence, Cairo.