Paul Nicholas Gogarty: Workers hit by Ireland's sick-pay gap

I'd just like to concur with my colleagues earlier in terms of the ongoing Israeli atrocities in Gaza and their mistreatment of 14 Irish citizens. I'd like to see you do as much as you can Minister. The issue I want to raise today is that in Ireland right now a worker can give 20 or 30 years of service, pay full PRSI, pay the higher rate of tax, contribute to the economy every single day and then the moment they face a serious illness they're hit hard. After a handful of statutory sick pay days they're pushed onto the flat rate payment and that bears no connection to their original income, their contributions or the financial responsibilities they have based on those ongoing contributions. So it's a social protection system that's not fit for purpose, it's a bit of a patchwork that sees people who are contributing to the tax take hit hard at the very moment they're most vulnerable. So statutory sick leave, I welcome that, it was a great first step but we need a new model, a bit like the pensions plan that was introduced. It has its criticisms but it is a model that could be replicated here, a hybrid system where employers, employees and the state all contribute to a fair sustainable sick pay structure that is to an extent based on income, that replaces a realistic percentage of that income and protects low and middle income workers and higher ones affected and recognises the decades of contributions that people have made. I recently got a message from a constituent Minister battling hard against breast cancer which as you know affects one in seven women. Someone with a well-paid job, she studied and worked hard to get to the level she's at and she raises the valid point about helping those who contribute over many years. She says I'm currently off work, my employer paid me a percentage of my salary for eight months. I got back to work for six months and then I had to go out again. I've had five surgical procedures in four months including one major surgery. I'm getting €250 a week. My medicine costs €170 a month as one of my meds is high-tech and not covered. I have a mortgage, car etc. I paid the high rate of tax I'd say for over 20 years if not more. Worked very hard throughout my career, made significant contributions along the way. Unfortunately my recovery hasn't been straightforward. Work is an important part of my DNA and I miss all the social interaction. I was brought up to be independent. I've been fortunate enough that I did get some sick pay from my employer and I did have some insurance cover in place, savings for college fees etc. However I've been sick for over two years, I've been impacted financially and there are many many people in the same boat I've met through my illness. Some without any supports and it's not right. People who like me pay taxes at the higher rate throughout. I think the state should provide when needed appropriate illness support based on taxes paid and cancer should absolutely be seen as a long-term illness with appropriate supports especially in this case breast cancer. So I'm just wondering Minister for your thoughts on this and whether such a hybrid model could be looked at. Minister. Thank you very much Deputy. Well firstly just thank you for raising this matter because well I know you're specifically talking about somebody with cancer or a long-term illness and the implications for them and indeed their families long term. I think this could apply to a number of different scenarios for people and I think as a country how we treat those who are vulnerable and then people who are at their most vulnerable is a testament to who we are and is a sign of who we are as a government, as a society and as a community and so the government that I've been a part of not just now but in previous years we have always strived and focused on looking at how we can support those who need our help most, how we can support those who are not in a position to work first and foremost perhaps because of illness, because of a disability, because of other factors in their lives but also how we can ensure that those who do work for most of their lives who contribute whether it's at the lower or the higher rate of tax but through no fault of their own find themselves in a situation where they cannot work and they cannot provide for themselves or their family that we provide them with the support that they are entitled to and as you've said we have I believe made good progress in recent years. I believe we have made good progress when it comes to supporting people who are self-employed where before there was no ability to support them if they suddenly were not able to work and that is obviously through a new contributory process that was introduced in recent years. We now have extended in a number of different formats statutory sick leave but I think it's an area in which we always need to strive to do more and certainly the position that you've outlined I'm thinking in particular of somebody that I know myself and who sadly has passed away where you know even things like getting home insurance because of a long-term illness became such a challenge even when you had another partner working and the difficulties there and this is something that we are moving as a government to try and address and to make sure that if somebody's in remission or if somebody is on the mend that they're able to get on with their lives because that's what people want to do they don't want to be seen with a heading or a bracket over them for the rest of their lives. So I think the proposals that you've made and the potential changes that we could put in place to support people who cannot work who are in long-term unemployment and where it doesn't look as though returning to to employment is a possible avenue for them that we seek to align the supports that they get more with where they had been in their previous career. Again I think of an example in my own constituency albeit not the same in terms of the illness but in Tower Mines where workers were laid off, where people were on a particular salary and where they were laid off for an indefinite period of time government came together to support them to try and put in place a mechanism that filled much of the gap and that filled the gap between their previous salary and what they were now getting from the state. So Deputy I think the point that you've raised is one that we would all support and certainly the Minister for Social Protection and the upcoming budget I've no doubt but more generally when it comes to our overall taxation measures we should look at how we can support people who are most vulnerable, how we can support people who are not in a position to go back to work and how we can support those be it because of health reasons or otherwise want to be able to get on with the rest of their lives. It's an issue I'm flagging so to speak I'm not expecting an overnight action but I think in the context of this budget it could be a process moving on. I'm someone who's a firm believer in developing an entrepreneurial society, creative society, giving people the opportunity to move forward but we absolutely have to protect the most vulnerable as myself and others have said all the time. The old Marx quote is probably the only bit of Marxism that's still relevant today from each according to their ability to each according to their need and there are people who have contributed over many years who then get into a position of need and the reason I mentioned a lot people with long-term illnesses and particularly the lady in question who's recovering from breast cancer is because as well as being out of work they have additional costs and they don't have that support base at a time when they've contributed and they need that little bit of extra help. So I think it's a valid point made and I take on board what you said and I hope that there may be some sort of a process that could help people out in the short to medium term. Look again I think what we need to do is build on what we have there and always try and improve the system and certainly when we live in a country where our economy is growing strong because of the people you mentioned who've contributed to it for many years we need to make sure that we're reinvesting back into those people into our communities and our economies and in particular targeting those who need our help the most so I've no doubt and the proposal that you've put forward or even to start a step process everything starts with a process and it's about engaging with the right people and making sure that anything that we provide that it is targeted. It's also about making sure that where there are opportunities for people to work perhaps in different fields or where there might be a lesser an opportunity to work in a different area that maybe mightn't be as pressurized or or might still provide them with some form of income that we do that and that certainly has been a priority over the last number of years particularly post the economic crash at the beginning of 2011 or so but we need to continue to look at ways in which we can support people back into the workplace into different types of work while recognising and acknowledging that there are some people who simply can't support them at a time when they need it.