Brian Stanley: Fury over plan to abolish the triple lock

No disrespect to you, but the Minister for Defence should be here. There's legislation planned to go before the Dáil to abolish the triple lock and we contend abolish neutrality. And the fact that the Minister is not here is an absolute disgrace and it shows total disrespect for the Parliament. Let me start off by saying that Irish neutrality... I'm taking the first and then the Minister will be in later. That's okay. The Minister will be. The Minister is taking it. The whole issue of Irish neutrality has been central to our sovereignty as a state. And as a member of the National Defence and Security Committee, I'm more concerned about what's happening now than I was in the past. Despite being a small country, our neutrality has enabled Ireland to play a very positive role in international affairs right from the 1950s and 60s to the present day. The Defence Amendment Act No. 2, 1960, encompassed neutrality and the requirement known as the triple lock, which means that defence forces cannot be deployed overseas without the authorisation of the UN, the government and the Dáil. The triple lock has been central to neutrality. Despite denials from government, that is not. The failures of the first referendums and the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed how important it is to the Irish people. And they weren't passed due to those concerns on neutrality. And to assuage those concerns, the triple lock and neutrality were both enshrined in solemn national declarations that were attached to both treaties and were only successful on the second occasion because of that. Any move by the government to abolish or undermine those commitments is a denial of democracy and, I believe, that is open to a legal challenge. On top of that, Minister, and I say this to you as a Fianna Fáil Minister, successive opinion polls have demonstrated that the vast majority of Irish people, despite all of the propaganda that's been shoved down their necks, despite that, the vast majority of Irish people support retaining the policy of neutrality. And I want to also say that the policy of neutrality doesn't inhibit or stop the government or the state increasing the capacity and capabilities of the defence forces and modernising them. The triple lock also does not restrict the number of defence forces personnel that can be deployed overseas, despite propaganda to the opposite, for the purposes of rescue and humanitarian and emergency missions, without a UN mandate. And the Minister confirmed that herself publicly in the committee to me recently. I want to turn to the issue of the United Nations. There's been a lot of misinformation that only the Security Council can veto peacekeeping missions, but of course the General Assembly can do that as well and there is precedent here. Ireland would not have got a seat on the Security Council, rotating seat on it, six or seven years ago, but for the fact that we're neutral. And one of the lobbying points for to convince developing countries to support us and to get the support of them at the General Assembly, was exactly the fact that we were neutral. I remember being told that going to Geneva with a Fianna Fáil Minister or with a Fianna Fáil TD and with a Fine Gael TD. A false impression has been created by the militarists in the media and the government parties in regard to the Security Council deadlock. It's not permanently deadlocked. Between 2020 and 2024, 264 resolutions out of a total of 284 have been passed, with no veto being exercised. And in relation to the restrictions on more than 12 members, that don't apply in the cases of humanitarian disasters, rescue or emergency missions, etc. In relation to peacekeeping missions, there are 11 current active peacekeeping missions, including one in Kosovo, which members of the Committee will be going to visit in a few weeks' time, where Irish peacekeepers are. Only one has been vetoed by the UN Security Council, and that was one proposed in 1999 for Macedonia, and it was vetoed by China over a dispute that got to do with Taiwan. Ireland has been participating since 1958 in peacekeeping missions, and Irish troops and peacekeepers have been held in high regard. It's appropriate that I raise the issue of the Fianna Fáil position. It's not my primary concern, but as a Republican, I want to raise this with you. It's the main reason I'm concerned about neutrality. As a Republican and as a left Republican, it's scandalous what's happening. And people in Fianna Fáil, Fianna Fáil grassroots, are saying to me, and you live in Leash, the same as I do, and I'm sure you're hearing it. Éamon O'Cuife, former Fianna Fáil Minister at the weekend, he said it's interesting that we have a President, Catherine Connolly, who got elected on her position on neutrality, triple lock, neutrality stroke, triple lock, the north, and on Seán go Gaeilge. He said there used to be Fianna Fáil core policies. That's what he said, Cian Corle. Willie O'Dea, no lesser a figure than the former Minister for Defence, he's been writing about the possibility of scrapping the proposal to scrap the triple lock and neutrality. He says that Fianna Fáil are abandoning our support, and this is a quote, abandoning our support for the United Nations is a fine Gael doctrine, not a Fianna Fáil one, unquote. That's not Brian Stonley, that's Willie O'Dea. I want to take you back to the Lisbon Treaty and the Nice Treaty. Successive commitments were given by government during that time, and there were solemn national commitments given, solemn national declarations enshrined and attached to both treaties, and they failed the first time. Those two treaties failed to get past the electorate in this state because of concerns over neutrality. They were rejected on those occasions, and the neutrality and triple lock and UN approval for peacekeeping missions was central to that. And I want to quote him for a minute. It's worthwhile quoting him again. It says, indeed, Ireland is not bound by any, and this is the one in Touch the Knees, indeed, Ireland is not bound by any mutual defence commitment. The Government of Ireland have made a firm commitment to the people of Ireland, solemnised in this declaration that a referendum will be held in Ireland on the adoption of any such decision, and any future treaty which would involve Ireland preparing to depart from its traditional policy of military neutrality. And it goes on. It requires the authorisation and operation by the Security Council or General Assembly of the United Nations to deploy overseas, and it also requires the agreement of Government and the approval of Dáil Éireann in accordance with Irish law. That's what the Fianna Fáil Government put into it at the time. And in Lisbon, it said that, in line with traditional policy of Irish neutrality, Ireland is not bound by any mutual defence commitment. But of course, we're abolishing the Triple Act to be part of a regional military alliance. Any such decision goes on, any such decision applicable to Ireland, and this requirement will not be affected should Ireland ratify the Lisbon Treaty. And further, it goes on again to reiterate, as it did in the case of Nice, that the authorisation of the Security Council General Assembly, the Dáil and the Government are required in accordance with Irish law. That's in those two solemn national declarations, not just met by Government, but met by the Irish people and on behalf of the Irish people. So, are we going to uphold them? And we've heard the word about sovereignty being bandied about, that we need to get rid of the Triple Act because that will make us more sovereign. But they were sovereign decisions of the people, so is Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael going to trample over that? The Government talk about it, but they were sovereign decisions. So was Micheál Martin and his fellow Fianna Fáil ministers in the noughties, on two occasions in the noughties, just kidding this, were they just caught in the electorate? I remember campaigning about the treaties during those referendums. And those opinion polls have clearly demonstrated that the majority of people support neutrality. And are you going to turn democracy and the will of the people on its head? That's the question for Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael. And the Government will deny that a referendum is required or is needed to abolish the Triple Act. So I'm asking you to respect the will of the people and to put your proposal to the people if you're going to abolish the Triple Act. Your proposal will shred the Triple Act. It'll shred neutrality. And if you have any respect for the electorate, you would do that. There's also a denial of the fact that the Triple Act and neutrality are linked. And the Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael spokespersons continue to deny this. But I'll remind you that the Irish troops were deployed on a mission under the command of other countries, particularly larger countries like Germany, as part of a regional force, without a UN Security Council or UN General Assembly approval. Then they could find themselves in a combat situation, possibly the eastern flank of Ukraine against Russia, and so on. And of course, if they become embroiled in a military combat, they're exposed to attack. And those people who have served overseas and who have been involved in some of this will always say that after the first military engagement, you can't predict what's going to happen when a battalion or regiment of troops are deployed. It's unpredictable what's going to happen. The key message here is what you're getting ready to do is abandon multilateralism, multilateralism and resolving disputes under the UN through dialogue and diplomacy. The argument about the change of world order, this is another great one that's pulled out. And this has been trotted out by Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael as justification for getting rid of the Triple Lock that's not fit for purpose. So what does this mean? Does this mean that the government don't believe in the UN or that the UN is not fit for purpose, so we just get rid of it? Of course it needs to be upgraded. Of course it needs to be reformed. And the scary stories of Russian advances, the Russians haven't gone as far as Kharkiv yet. They haven't gone as far as Kharkiv. You know, we haven't seen any evidence of them wanting to invade Dublin just yet. I wouldn't foresee it any time in the near future. Four drones were flown over Hoth, Hoth Head or near Hoth Head under the flight path to Dublin Airport as part of the conditioning process to excite people and worry people so as we would abandon neutrality. And there's the talk of the level of international conflict that we should ditch the UN and join with the militaries in Europe, headed by Germany. That's nonsense. Instead, we should be adding to efforts to enhance the UN and work with other non-aligned states and reform it. We should work with others to reestablish the primacy of multilateralism for resolving disputes. The Triple Lock was central to the Defence Amendment Act 1960. Brian Fianna Fáil Minister headed it up. And that was at the height of the Cold War. That was at the height of the Cold War. So it's important that neutrality is maintained.