Danny Healy-Rae criticises chimney removals after storm outages

I hope they don't find out I'm here, they might stop me talking. All right. Minister, it's very important to debate this issue here tonight, and I've had so many people in Kerry who actually perished the cold when their houses that were basically heated by electricity lost power. Can you imagine young families with babies trying to heat a bottle for them? And, you know, simple things became an awful deal. Electric pumps didn't work, water pumps didn't work because of the electricity me out. Now, in times gone by it wouldn't have been so bad because we could boil the kettle of water, open the stove or hang it in the crane like my grandmother did and it was boiling all the time, and she even had the door open. But this whole thing has gone mad. I mean, the whole thing is overkill. I mean, they're advised to take the chimneys out of the houses and it's totally and absolutely wrong because the chimney was the most important component of the house. It was there to take the smoke out but it was actually there as well to take the foul air out. None of this is needed because there's plenty of insulation in the houses, in the houses that have been built up today. But to think that in Kilgarveen I passed over through the village and you have a scenario where the roofs are taken off of three council houses that are void and they're vacant and there's people trying to get into them. But the roofs are taken off for to take out the chimney. They have to take off the back side of the roof to get the chimney out and this is what they're ordered to do. And this is to get the house fitted and ready for the next tenants. But this is the delay. In Guinea-Willi, it took five years to get three houses reinstated because the department have to, it is one of the the things that they demand that the chimneys take note before the houses made livable again. It's actually unbelievable that houses that were lived in till the other day are the chimneys being taken out of and just cost any amount of money. I must presume it costs at least 200,000 euros and in three houses this would actually build another new house. No bother in the world, maybe one and a half. So common sense. I'm asking now, we'll forget about what's the way it came about but I want you to rectify this. There's no need in the wide world and if you're thinking people that all of a sudden in the snow and the frost they had electric heating all around them everything was a button. But if they had the whole simple stove, they could boil the kettle, they could fry or boil an egg or fry a rasher and a sausage, they wouldn't be hungry. But they were cold and miserable and some of them didn't even have water. And can you imagine, down on top of that, they had no access till the Kerry Mountain Rescue Team came to their assistance. It's unbelievable what's happening now today, Minister. And I'm asking this new government and I wish you well in your post and I wish all the ministers here well in their new post. And it is important for the sake of the people of Ireland that they do well. But common sense must prevail here and forget this racket or caper of taking the chimneys out of the houses because they're insulated enough. But please leave them something in times of an emergency when they need food and when they need to boil the kettle or to boil a pot of spuds or whatever. Leave them something as a backup. Minister to respond, please. Minister O'Sullivan. I just want to say at the outset, I want to thank Deputy Healy Ray for raising this. It gives me the first opportunity I've had to, I suppose, say that my heart goes out to those people right across the country, especially the Western seaboard, who have for the last almost two weeks now, many of them have gone without either power or running water or just the bare essentials. And I can't even begin for a second to imagine how difficult that is for them. Luckily, where I am in West Cork wasn't hit as bad as other areas. Clearly some of Kerry was hit pretty bad as well. And I think that's something that we have to take cognizance of and acknowledge. But just as well as one take this opportunity to thank wholeheartedly the emergency services, the local authority staff, the emergency staff, fire crew, medical staff right out the world. It's absolutely incredible the response that they have put up to this emergency. And I want to particularly pay attention to some of the nurses and the staff of some of our hospitals right across the country. On the night of the storm, before the worst winds hit, in hospitals right throughout Ireland and in Tannacilty Community Hospital, in Bantry Hospital, in CUH and I'm sure hospitals right throughout Kerry, staff and nurses, they got out their mattresses and they stayed overnight to ensure that those people in those hospitals had the best care. And I just want to take this opportunity to acknowledge that. And just in relation to your own point, Deputy Healy Ray, which you've put across incredibly well, I'm sure there are a lot of people right up the western seaboard who did have fireplaces or stove, for example. We're very glad that they had them. Look, electric heat pumps are certainly the way to go in terms of electrifying heat and efficient homes. But that's at a point where we have a steady and reliable grid and a reliable supply of electricity. But there are people right across the country who are glad that they had stoves and fireplaces. And I think you've put that eloquently. But just to say to your point at the outset, and I'll explain the technicality, there is no requirement from this department at least to remove chimneys. And that's something that's very much set in stone. And I'll explain that later. And here's the, I suppose, the technicality of it. All new dwellings must comply with building regulations, the aim of which is to provide for the safety and welfare of people in and about buildings, and in addition to achieve a six year durability for all key elements. The building regulations set out the minimum requirements for the construction of new buildings and certain works to existing buildings. The Climate Action Plan commits to reducing the use of fossil fuels in buildings, and that the energy performance requirements for new buildings are set out in accordance with the nearly zero energy building, or the NZEB requirements of the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive . NZEB means a building that has a very high energy performance with nearly zero or very low amount of energy required covered to a very significant extent by energy from renewable sources. As NZEB dwellings have very high fabric performance, the heat will typically be retained for a longer period in an NZEB dwelling than in average dwelling. Building regulations require new buildings to achieve an overall energy and carbon emissions performance which is calculated using the Dwelling Energy Assessment Performance or the DEAP published by SCAI. And here's the important point to your point, Deputy Hillary. Secondary heating systems such as single room solid fuel stoves using renewable wood can still be installed in new housing under building regulations once the overall energy performance requirement for that dwelling is achieved. So that speaks to your point. Overall, modern highly insulated hoses retain the heat for much longer than traditional uninsulated houses and are more resilient during power cuts whilst at the same time reducing carbon emissions from the built environment. With regard to the retrofit of local authority homes in 2021, a new holistic approach was applied to the local authority energy efficient retrofit program designed around the program for government commitment led by the Department for Environment, Climate Action and Communications. And I will continue with that response once you've come in again, Deputy Hillary. Thank you very much Minister for the reply but I suppose and I wish to join with you in thanking all the emergency services and all the people that were out in the dark and the wet night and day trying to get the electricity going again and all the people in the health services who especially visited all people in the home helps and everything and all the great work that they did. But look, my point is and like you're saying to me that there's no regulations or new houses that they're not being stopped or put in you know stoves or whatever but the facts are that to achieve the BER rating and and the bank are looking for that whatever it is of their business in order to tell people to get the loan they have to and order to achieve the BER rating that they are demanding you have to you can't have a stove or you can't have a chimney that is the hard facts and the other things why is it that the department won't give the money to the local authority in our case Kerry county council to retrofit the houses they won't qualify for the retrofit grant if they don't take out the chimney that's what i'm asking you to deal with here today and not have the scenario going on that's taking over 12 months first of all the house is idle for 12 months to draw down the grant and one of the implications of that is they do have to take out the chimney that will have to be removed i'm depending on you now and your government to sort this out because just costing double triple what these three houses could have got a rubber paint and do a few necessary things to them and that they've been rolling in after at least two months now they're there 12 months or more and how long more does this take because this won't happen in a couple of days the houses got it three houses got inside the garden village to take the chimneys out of them please stop it minister and i'm asking to do just that thank you deputy minister to respond thank you deputy and again i take your point and look the the response is here and it's quite clear to me uh in terms of the uh energy efficient retrofit program this is the erp and i read it all again because i think this answers this should answer your question works eligible under the department's revised erp include attic cavity wall insulation or external wall insulation where required window and door replacement heat pump installation as well as ancillary and associated works and here's the line again the removal of chimneys is not required by this department and and that and that's it look we will and we'll send we'll send you a note on that please this is this for this further underlines to deputy elia ray building regulations are performance based and technology neutral there is nothing preventing new dwellings from including fireplaces or chimneys as it is possible to comply with building regulations when these are installed and that that's that's that's pretty clear we can send you a further note on that new rated homes are highly insulated and will retain heat for longer than traditional poorly insulated hoses they are also there are some multiple benefits during normal operation of improved comfort improved indoor air quality and carbon emission reductions local authorities um supported by the national emergency coordination group are coordinating a local level humanitarian assistance response to the needs of people who have significantly been impacted by the storm more than 280 emergency response hubs have been set up in the counties most affected by service soldiers emergency response hubs are assisting people with basic needs such as water hot food phone charging broadband access and shore facilities a key focus is on ensuring the welfare and of vulnerable or isolated people making sure supports our resources are directed to where they're most needed and look just to conclude deputy hedera you've you've made your point well uh you've outlined the difficulties that people in kerry and right throughout the western seaboard are having and i know and as you outlined there were many people who were happy that they had a stove of some sort that they were able to at least heat heat water but it's it's pretty clear there in black and white there's nothing required by the department uh that says chimneys have to be removed or that they can't be installed once it's compliant thank you please thank you deputy healy ray that's your question time we move now to deputy frank fiend second topic