Senator Gerard Craughwell- speech from 25 May 2022

Thank you, our last Cahirlech. Minister, you are welcome to the House. Thank you very much. It would have been good to hear your full presentation. It is a very comprehensive piece of work and clearly you have engaged right across all sectors to try and bring the best possible legislation in this area. Protective disclosure is something that has bothered me quite considerably since I came into this House because I think that there is a massive misconception out there as to what precisely a protected disclosure is and how one should go about making a disclosure. Members of this House and of the Dáil will constantly receive blanket emails from members of the public who have an issue with an employer, an issue with a public service, an issue with whatever, and they always front up the submission as a protected disclosure. They have contacted everybody in the world to tell them that they are making a protected disclosure, thereby doing away with any chance of protecting their own good names. Very frequently, the issue that is raised with members of the Oireachtas is not really conducive to protected disclosures. I am delighted that you are putting a commissioner in place and that that will allow people who are uncertain as to how to go about making a disclosure that they will be able to go through the office of the commissioner and the commissioner will direct them to the correct place. My colleague, Senator Garvey, just made some reference to people on the front line, voluntary groups. There is no doubt that recent evidence that has come to join the Oireachtas committees and that has come to members of the Oireachtas individually, there is a desperate need within the voluntary sector to have an avenue in which to pursue a protected disclosure where they believe that their personal safety is at stake is at stake or the safety of their colleagues is at stake, moreover, about improving the organisation. All of us and none of us are immune from this. When we are in management positions in organisations, we sometimes believe the protection of the organisation is more important than the protection of the individual worker. I think you are addressing this in this bill. I think workers will have an avenue to go to make their disclosure to make their disclosure. Because of the reporting mechanisms that you have built in, once the disclosure is made, there is a feedback sequence that can be followed. From that point of view, I think this is going to be really important. Section 16, which protects the individual's identity, is an excellent piece of work as well. We have all come across. We have all come across, particularly both in my trade union background and in my teaching background and in industry before that, we have all come across situations that needed rectifying. Sadly, the tendency is to isolate the person who identifies the problem and make them seem to be the demon rather than somebody that is trying to improve the workforce for everybody. So, from that point of view, I think this bill will go a long way, particularly with the use of the commissioner in there. I think it will go a long way. Employers need a bit of education here. Not everybody that is making a protected disclosure is doing so for malicious purposes. I do think, even as a trade unionist, I can appreciate that some people will be malicious in seeking to use this legislation in order to inflict some sort of pain on their employer. There needs to be protections in there for the employer or for named people, shall we say. It is not being used for a purpose of malice. I think, in fairness, 99 out of 100 people would never do that. But, the important thing here is that we are looking at the person making the disclosure as having given an honest and fair disclosure and it is up to the employer to prove that that is wrong. So, from that point of view, I think that this is really welcome. Alongside protected disclosures and in the same general area is bullying in the workplace. One of the real problems there is for somebody making a disclosure is that they will be subjected to bullying in the workplace. By its very nature, bullying in the workplace is a cowardly one-on-one act that most people are not aware of. Most people will know that the bully has a street image and has a private image. In the private image, there are horrible people who attack people, not personally, but they attack them from a psychological, from a mental point of view. There are several instances of people who have taken their own lives as a result of bullying in the workplace. It is something I guess we need to look at as we look at protected disclosures because the release of a person's name can ultimately lead to that person being identified, even by colleagues. You take a situation where there is a safety issue and that safety issue is brought to management. Everybody has been happy enough working away with it and there is one guy who insists that, for example, the safety rope is in place before the job starts and things like that. You can be seen to be a crank when in actual fact you are there trying to protect everybody else. I think there is an opportunity here with this legislation to ensure that that information gets back. I would ask you, Minister, three things. One, that we educate employers with respect to their responsibilities for protected disclosure. Having the legislation in place is one thing, but to educate people as to how to process that is vitally important. Two, that we educate the general public. A member of the public should be able to make a protected disclosure against an organisation, against a particular thing that they observe, without fear of reprisal of any sort. The third thing, I guess, is to get out there into the public domain what is not a protected disclosure, more importantly than what is a protected disclosure. If we do that, I think we will have gone a long way. I compliment you for bringing this, Minister, and I am really grateful to you that you have decided to make your officials available as this bill passes through the House. If there are issues that we wish to question or to have more information on, your officials will be there for us. I hope that this bill passes through the House smoothly and that we get it up and running as quickly as possible. I thank you for your time today, Minister. Thank you. Thank you.