Conor D McGuinness: Raises Alarm Over Under-recorded SAR Hours

Premier Magadha, Chahirleig, and at the outset, I know you were here in the room earlier, but I'll say it while you're sat at the table, to thank and commend you that work in the Search and Rescue Service and those, your members of IALPA and Forza for the service that you give. As Chair of the Arachtas Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs and as a lifelong trade unionist, I mean, I feel this on both senses, it's a workers' rights issue, it's also about safety. It's about safety of the crew and it's about the safety and the well-being of the people that you're tasked to respond to. My colleague David Cullinan and I, both as Waterford TDs, have raised us, we've brought a topical issue in the Dáil, we brought a PMB motion last week with our colleagues in Sinn Féin on this issue and we get the difference between standby and immediate readiness. If you're a commercial airline pilot and you're in the airport or close to the airport on standby in case a pilot is ill and can't turn up for work to take over a scheduled flight, that is different to waiting there in immediate readiness to get in and go and respond to an incident on the sea or on land. So we get that difference. I don't know that government necessarily appreciate it, but they should. The response from government to all our raising of this has been, well, the minister has no regulatory responsibility. We know that. The Irish Aviation Authority is the regulator. But the minister in this government has political responsibility and they have to take that political responsibility and they have to act on it. And that's the clear message that I want to give today. I think it's very clear and I think, Mr Everidge, you hit the nail on the head. This is a commercial contract. This is about costs. I think we have an operator here who is doing what an operator, a commercial operator is always going to do. They're going to prioritise a margin for themselves, otherwise they wouldn't be entering into contracts of this nature. But it's for government and the regulator to mitigate the natural and legitimate demand of a private operator to seek more profit for their shareholders against the public good. And I don't think that's happening here. So what we see is 2,000 hours, far in excess of that being worked, being accounted as 2,000 hours to provide more coverage for less money to increase the margin of a private operator. And I believe that the FRMS is being used as a fig leaf. It has value, it has merit in its own right. I don't discount that, but it is being used as a fig leaf to cover up that very basic fact. So my question, and I'll put it to Mr O'Callaghan and to Mr Everidge in turn, is what is your key message to government coming out of this meeting? If the Minister, and he should be, he hasn't been before this committee, apart from very briefly to do some estimates, but what would be your message to the Minister for Transport from this committee meeting here today? So maybe Mr O'Callaghan first, and then Mr Everidge. Hello, committee. I suppose the key message would just be that the European Working Time Directive is fully recognised in regards to our working hours. That would be the main takeaway for me for this committee. And the factoring of these hours does under record the amount of time that the search and rescue crews do spend on the base. Thank you, Deputy. Excuse me. This is a purely legislative case. This is about Irish law. This is about the application of Irish law. And we are at the disposal of our company, our customer, who is the state, ultimately, we are at their disposal for 24 hours. That has to count as full-time under Irish law, EU law, and EU case law. All points in one direction. And I would urge the... I thank this committee, number one, and number two, I'd urge the Minister to look at what I've just outlined in a brief history lesson, an over 25-year problem with the under-recording of search and rescue workers. Thank you. Chair, could I just formally second the proposal made by Deputy Crowe earlier in terms of that document? I meant to do it at the outset. And with your indulgence, we heard a testimony here that search and rescue aircrew have been threatened with disciplinary action if they refuse to work more than 2,000 hours, irrespective of how Bristol and IAA count that 2,000 hours, but workers who work know how many hours they work. And what is the response from Forces of Trade Union and from IALPA as an association to that threat of disciplinary action? Is there a potential for industrial action, should it come to that? Mayor Kirkland, I'll take that. That's a good observation, and thanks for the question, Deputy. Yeah, this was a matter that was brought up during the negotiations for the agreement that we currently have with Bristol, which was necessitated by the fact that there was no framework on that looking which would have made sure that all the terms and conditions of those which would have transferred from the previous operator directly to Bristol. So that was something which we had to engage in. So the hypothetical situation arose that where there was a disagreement between myself and a member of management in Bristol, where I said, well, we're counting hours as elapsed hours, clock hours if you like. So what happens is that you're saying that there's a different number for our members of technical crew. And what happens then when we get close to that limit, when we get close to that FDL, that flight time limit of 2,000 hours, and I was told in no uncertain language that they would be subject to the full rigors of a disciplinary process, which one can only imagine would be up to and including potentially disciplinary or dismissal. Now that had a chilling effect on the conversation at that point and it was most unwelcome. But we got past that and there is a scheme where there is a trial of an amended roster which will start in June of next year. However, it remains to be seen how successful or not that's going to be. Ultimately, the problem is that there simply aren't enough technical crew to operate the roster to the proper way by accounting for 2,000 hours as proper elapsed hours. So I do think that the concern I have is that we're going to enter into a phase of potential industrial action or certainly conflict in the coming months. Not immediately, but it is down to this. Bristol are relying on, as you can expect them to do so, on a commercial advantage which has been provided to them by the interpretation of the law and in 058 as it is. And again, I note that at the debate on the 2nd of December in the Dáil, it was stated by two junior ministers that the Minister for Transport has no hand actor or part in any of this. But if that was the case, then surely the Department of Transport wouldn't have been invited to make observations and become involved in the review of 058, such as it is. Now that's a very limited review, which is my understanding. So there's potential there, that's potentially the opportunity which we would say should be taken by Government to address this issue and head off this very serious industrial relations matter, which is coming down the tracks towards us. Thank you very much.