Holly Cairns: Demands Forensic Probe on Bessborough Burials

Minister, in 1940, Ireland's infant mortality rate was 6.5%. In Bessborough Mother and Baby Home, it was 61%. In a 1943 Department Inspector, Alice Litzer, said, and I quote, the greater number were miserable scraps of humanity, weasoned, some emaciated, and almost all had rash and sores all over their bodies, faces, hands and heads. Minister, many of those children died of starvation. The state was fully aware, but the institution remained open and women and children continued to be incarcerated and abused there. Between 1922 when it opened and 1998 when it finally closed, 923 children died in Bessborough, but burial records exist for just 64. It seems no one even cared enough to record where they were buried. The nuns who ran Bessborough did keep meticulous records about one thing, baptisms. A few years ago when it was suggested some of the children had not been baptised, the congregation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary were quick to correct the record. They wanted to quote, state categorically that all children born in Bessborough were baptised within the rights of the Catholic Church and canon law. But when it comes to the burial records of babies who died there, they apparently have no idea where they are. They disappeared without a trace as if they never existed. The Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes was quote, perplexed and concerned by the inability of the congregation to identify the burial places and concluded it was quote, highly likely that the burials did take place on the grounds. 28 years since Bessborough closed, we still don't know where they are because the state hasn't bothered to look. Minister, unbelievably, planning permission has now been granted to build an apartment complex on the grounds of Bessborough. Can you imagine how empty the apology to Mother and Baby Homes survivors must feel when five years later, planning permission has somehow been granted to build apartments on a mass grave? Minister, I don't think you need me to tell you that ordinarily if there were any number of children buried somewhere, there would be a criminal investigation. There would never be a question of just concreting over it. It is not just callous, it is abhorrent and it should never be allowed to happen. Minister, survivors will be protesting outside the Dáil this evening. They want the government to act before it's too late to acquire the grounds and conduct a long overdue forensic investigation. What do you have to say to them? Yeah, well thanks very much Deputy Kearns for your question. Obviously it evokes a very painful and disturbing part of our history. In fairness to this government and indeed previous governments, there has been a process of trying to ensure that women who are survivors of Mother and Baby Homes and indeed children who are born there are provided with recompense and acknowledgement by the state over the past 10 to 15 years or so. Nothing is ever enough for the pain that people went through, particularly the pain of mothers having children taken off them at a very young stage. You referred to the Commission of Investigation report, Deputy, into Mother and Baby Homes and it, as you know, carried out a cartographic and landscape assessment of possible unrecorded burial arrangements in Bessborough. It also carried out a site survey and consulted with people on responses to its appeal seeking information about burials there and it concluded that it is likely that some of the children who died at Bessborough are buried in the grounds but it was unable to find any physical or documentary evidence of this. So as no evidence of locations was found, the Commission did not consider it feasible to excavate the full available site which amounts to 60 acres or indeed the former 200-acre estate, parts of which have now been built on. But Deputy, I can empathise and acknowledge the pain that survivors from Bessborough feel at the news that the site is to be developed in a way that they feel does not give recognition to the terrible actions that went on there previously. Planning permission has been granted. You know as well as I do that government can't interfere in respect of planning applications. I don't know whether an appeal has been lodged but if an appeal hasn't been lodged, obviously that is an avenue available to the survivors. In terms of the other avenues available, you've asked that the State would purchase the site. I think, Deputy, unless there is specific strong cartographic evidence as to where bodies are buried there, that we could find ourselves in a situation of buying a very vast site for the purpose of carrying out excavations on that site which could take an interminable period of time. We know what is happening in Choom at present which is a very small location. I had the honour of being there and seeing the size of that location previously. But if we were to buy a site the size of Bessborough and start excavations there, I would be extremely concerned at the length of time that would take and ultimately I don't think it would provide the type of support and I suppose appropriate response that all of us in this house want to provide to survivors. But I will raise it and I will talk to the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste in respect of it. Deputy, I can understand the concern but I don't think purchasing the site is the answer. Minister, first of all I think it's just incorrect to say that there isn't specific and strong enough evidence. I think the Commission saying that it is likely that there is the remains of children on the grounds is specific and strong enough evidence to prove that there probably is, that at the very least it warrants an examination. There seems to be a kind of perception that this is just a normal planning application, there's no sensitivity, there's no criminal aspect to it, there's no nothing and that the government is just treating it like that. Well it's been granted now, what can we do about it? But Minister, if a child disappeared today and it was suspected that they were buried in a particular plot of land, I think it's safe to say that there would be a forensic examination, followed by that the coroner would be called. There would be all of the criminal legal processes to follow that and rightly so, because the family of that child would deserve justice. So can you tell me why the families of the 829 unaccounted for disappeared children don't deserve that, but the families of the children in Choom do? Thank you Deputy, Minister to respond. Deputy, we want to be honest with people as well and in terms of the 829 families, we don't want to mislead them into believing that by purchasing the site we'll be able to excavate it and identify burial grounds. We need to be honest with people in respect of that and just so as you are on foot of the government's action plan for survivors and former residents of mother and baby homes, the Minister for Housing wrote to local authorities requesting that development plan processes consider incorporating appropriate measures to ensure the protection of unrecorded burial sites. So that's an issue that must be going on by the local authority over in which Bessborough is placed and the action plan also contains commitments in relation to dignified local memorialisation of known or agreed burial sites. So like purchasing the land deputy and the old home, like there's no point in doing that unless we think there is a realistic prospect of being able to identify burial grounds within it as otherwise we're just prolonging the suffering and pain of individuals who are in Bessborough. Thank you Minister.