Carol Nolan presses for fuel quality checks and haulage support

I'd just like to welcome all of the witnesses here today and thank you all for your very comprehensive briefings. They were very informative. My first question is to Kevin. Kevin, in terms of you mentioned that Fuels for Ireland were calling for an expert group to be set up. Now, will their role be advisory? And what I'm concerned about is I think there has to be somebody set up that's going to regulate the fuels coming in, as in the quality, the blend, and ensuring that they're up to standard. And the reason I say that is because I read an article in the Irish Times last year where one haulage company spent £20,000 repairing damage, getting repairs to their engine. It's becoming a very common problem, and not alone was there that issue, but certainly in my own constituency offices I'm hearing more and more reports that there's issues with the quality of fuel, which is putting another financial burden, a huge financial burden, on the haulage companies that are already grappling with carbon tax, with toll fees, with minimum wage increases for their workers, and so many other costs. It just seems unfair. So I'm just wondering, is that something you would support if the expert group doesn't encompass that currently that you're calling for? Would you support the need for an independent regulatory body to monitor that fuel? Because obviously the fuel is needed. We do need imports, and I agree with that. But it has to be done right. It can't have unintended consequences or more financial burdens for a sector. Thanks, Deputy. In terms of the expert group that we've called for, we think that that's about the cost that taxation and other government policies put, or the impact that that has on fuel. So if we look at today, looking this morning, the impact of the carbon tax increase last night meant that about €1.05 is paid in tax to the government on every litre of petrol. Well, it's slightly less for diesel, so it's about €1 for diesel. And then there are compliance costs. So then the next thing then is one of those compliance costs is the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation Scheme. So that's what we think the focus of the expert group, but I don't want to dodge your question around the fuel quality piece. I can't accept that this is a common problem, because, you know, as I was coming in here, I didn't see tons of cars on the side of the road and vans and trucks on the side of the road with problems. We do have an independent fuels quality monitoring. Under the European Fuels Quality Directive, it is required that all member states have a very specific standard of fuels quality monitoring, and that is undertaken in this country and has been done over 20 years. So we, and there has never been any sort of substantial non-compliance with the fuel quality directive. So we know that the product that we are selling is meeting the fuel quality standards absolutely routinely. So we don't accept that there is any cause for concern on fuel qualities. Can I come in on that? Look, I can forward you the emails and the knowledge and information that I've got, that there is an issue. There definitely, most certainly is an issue. And, you know, your second point about the European, why do we always have to look to Europe to hold our hands? Can we not set up a regulatory body here ourselves in Ireland? And I say this as an independent TD, but I know that cross-party TDs as well in the Chamber last all term have raised the issue of fuel quality. That came from cross-party TDs, not just from my own constituency, they were in different constituencies. So there is an issue, and I believe it's a rising problem that we're having. And let it be five or six companies affected, that's five or six too many. And I know for a fact there's a lot more than five or six companies affected with this issue, and they have had first-hand experience. But I think that it would be pragmatic, and certainly I take your point about monitoring fuel costs. That needs to be done, absolutely, by an expert group. But so does monitoring the quality of the fuel. It just has to be done, in my opinion, or we're going to have a much bigger problem down the tracks. Because companies want to use the more efficient fuel that's better for the environment. They want to do that. But there has to be. There has to be some oversight. And we don't need to look to Europe to do that for us. It's good to have that layer there. But we need to do it here as well. Well, I think we need to understand what we're talking about. So the fuel's quality is set by Europe. So there's a European standard. Yeah, I know that. And the testing of that is set by a European standard. And that's why we look to Europe for it. The compliance in Ireland is guaranteed by an independent lab which conducts the sampling and the testing. And the report goes into the Department of Transport and from there on to Europe. So when you say that you can forward me the evidence, I'm not suggesting that no Hawley has ever had a maintenance problem with a vehicle. But how you can then say that that is as a result of the fuel and how you can say that that is as a result of a fuel not meeting a standard which we know is being met, objectively, independently assessed. There are definitely issues, Kevin. We'll agree to disagree, but there are issues. There most certainly is issues. And just my last question, and I'll be very brief, Chair. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak. In terms of, look, we have carbon tax allocation, $950 million in 2025. We have haulage companies under severe pressure, and I know Ger has outlined some of the costs that they have to endure year after year and no incentives. Some of that money should be, if we can't get rid of carbon tax, and by the way, I was strongly opposed to the carbon tax. I still am. But if we can't get rid of that carbon tax, something needs to be ring-fenced in terms of subsidising haulage sector, which is part of our supply chain. It's an important part of our supply chain. And if we can't exempt them and the agriculture sector, which obviously is vital for food production, if we can't exempt them from carbon tax, that would be the proper thing to do. If that can't be done, we need to look at ring-fencing and amount of money so that they're supported directly in their sector to keep their trucks on the road and keep doing the good work they're doing. And also, just to ask Ger as well, in terms of supports, I know in the Irish Road Haulage Strategy 2022-23, there was the effectiveness of zero-emission heavy-duty vehicle purchase grant scheme. Now, my sense of that was, when I read it, that it was putting the cart before the horse. Because how would you expect a haulage firm to have the money to purchase one of these vehicles, even if they're using a grant, if they're already inundated with costs? So, my question, Ger is, did many people take that up? And would you see, for instance, that practical measures like supporting hauliers by giving you a rebate package or, indeed, subsidising HVO, would they be better measures for you rather than the purchase of heavy-duty vehicles, which, in my opinion, is putting the cart before the horse? Well, first of all, I'll answer the subsidising of the HVO. That, for our industry, is probably one of the most important things that we're looking for. We know we need to decarbonise our industry. It's a low-hanging fruit. It's a very easy way to do it. But we need help, and we need help from the government. We need support to do it. It's not coming. We're not getting it. We've put in a proposal again this year into a budget submission. We've backed it up by a report that we got done from PwC. Our figures were all justifiable. They all stood up, and we got no help this year in the budget again. So, really and truly, as an industry, our members are just so frustrated, exasperated. We don't know where we're going to go. We're after getting another two cents a litre. To Joe Public, that two cents a litre. I know it's an added expense on his fuel tank every week in his car, but for companies like mine that's buying 40,000 litres of fuel at a time, probably twice a month, that two cents a litre is huge. On a small rural-based company that's paying an average of 15,000 to 20,000 euro a month on tolls. In, again, we have another two cents a litre on our fuel. Like, we're probably one of the last industries left, the transport industries are probably one of the last companies left in rural Ireland. Unless we get help and support, we're an industry like our publicans, like our local shops. We're just going to disappear slowly but surely, one by one. A lot of our industry is a one-to-five-truck-based business. There are local people implied next-door neighbours' relations in one thing and another. The average age of our haulier is 60 years of age. The average age of our driver is 60 years of age. We're an island nation, completely disjointed from Europe. And unless we get the proper support from our government, our transport industry is slowly and surely dying on its feet. Okay, go ahead. You wanted to come in on a previous question? Yes, thank you, Deputy. Nolan, and I just hear on behalf of the IRHA and its members, I just have to take issue with Kevin's presentation there. It's the ETC fuel quality report. And the most recent report is based on the 2022 figures submitted by each member. Ireland submitted the absolute minimum results from the 100 samples that are mandated to be taken. The inverse is Belgium, which has a state-based authority overseeing its fuel. It's called FAPITRO. They took over 2,000 samples. We took our 100 and we had no discrepancies. The FAPITRO reported 31. And we've never reported, as Kevin said, but who's responsible? If you read the ETC report, fuels for Ireland are responsible for taking the samples. And presumably after our members. And they only take samples from forecourts. They don't take samples at blending stations. They don't take samples from bulk delivery points like Hollier's here. So there is no state oversight of fuel quality in Ireland. And if you read the CCPC, the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, if you look up the website, it categorically states there is no state oversight of fuel quality in Ireland. And if you have an issue with fuel, please go to an independent laboratory and have it checked. And I also want to expose here another report that was done by Bruno Cayley Consultants. And they state in it categorically, 18% of Ireland's biodiesel is produced from Category 1 tallow, the jar reference. The EU average, including the UK, is 4%. So we are 4.5 times the inclusion rate of tallow, animal fat, in our diesel. And if you look at use, cooking oil is 3.5 times. That's official. That's a government report done by consultants for NORA and the Department of Transport. So we're saying here, yeah, so we're saying that there is an issue. And thank you, Deputy Nolan, for raising it. It's an absolute issue. And it needs state response. And I'll tell you why, is that SMI will confirm that the amount of diesel passenger cars has gone from nearly 80% in 2012 down to below 20%. So diesel now, more than ever, is the fuel of commerce. And while we can talk about HVO, you know, in coming in on it to a certain extent, the 7% FAME inclusion rate is called EN590 quality of diesel. Every truck on the road has EN590 stamped on its tank. And that is the basis of its warranty. And we have had members with new vehicles where the dealership has refused to cover the warranty on the vehicle when it has shown fuel issue problems because they've had the diesel in the tank tested and it's failed EN590 standards. So this forum, it absolutely has to go on the record that fuel quality in Ireland is an issue. And the secondary component, as Eugene referenced, is the consequence of that poor quality is increased consumption. And I have a statement here from DAF Technical Department. They manufacture the engines for their trucks. And they say that any inclusion rate of FAME, which is unprocessed biofuel, it's raw biofuel, over 7% means their engines are not meeting the emission targets. And that's a design criteria for their engines. They're based on EN590. So it needs to go on the record here that the transport industry in Ireland has a problem with its fuel, not only because of the five or six taxes that we're paying on it, but its quality. And it needs state intervention and state oversight. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Very quickly now, very quickly. The standards of Europe, the recast excise energy directive is going through Europe now. And the Danes don't charge any excess on that fuel because it's such rubbish. You take it at your risk to use it. You have to have better quality fuel to attract excise in Europe. And if we don't handle it here and address the issue, the Europeans are going to do it for us and we'll have no Senate. Okay. Can I...